View Poll Results: Linux would become more popular if they....

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  • simplified their “distro” list. There are too many versions.

    6 7.79%
  • added more wizards and walkthroughs for novice users.

    12 15.58%
  • gained more support from software and game developers.

    47 61.04%
  • didn’t suck so much.

    8 10.39%
  • Other

    4 5.19%
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Results 21 to 30 of 61
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    28
    My main turn off about linux is how stuck up the users are. You try to get help with it and THEY USUALLY TRY TO MAKE YOU LOOK OR FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT. Especially if you ask an honest question like 'why should I use linux?' Their answer for everything is to read 20 page howtos, even if they know a simple 10-word answer to your question. If they do give you an answer, they will intentionally use jargon instead of a step by step procedural help. Example, if you asked how to make the sound work on your soundcard, you'd get 'recompile the kernal, read the sound howto'. If you asked a windows user you would more likely get a step by step on how to find the new driver and how to remove the old one and how to install the new one with a recap about why its not working now, even though these windows users are 'not as knowledgeable about computers'. It just goes to show that knowledge is power and power corrupts.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    2,606
    Originally posted by iamdt
    My main turn off about linux is how stuck up the users are. You try to get help with it and THEY USUALLY TRY TO MAKE YOU LOOK OR FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT.
    And are you an idiot?


    Especially if you ask an honest question like 'why should I use linux?' Their answer for everything is to read 20 page howtos,
    If you have to ask then you probably shouldn't

    even if they know a simple 10-word answer to your question. If they do give you an answer, they will intentionally use jargon instead of a step by step procedural help. Example, if you asked how to make the sound work on your soundcard,
    That's kind of a vague question - I hope you specified your soundcard model and manufacturer and what exactly was the error you were getting - did you get any error messages in a terminal window?

    you'd get 'recompile the kernal, read the sound howto'.
    Recompiling the kernel with specific support for your hardware and/or to include any modules not included by default is usually the first option, reading howtos and googling to specific help on your soundcard is basic common sense - do you expect every linux user to have the technical documentation for every piece of hardware sitting in front of them?

    If you asked a windows user you would more likely get a step by step on how to find the new driver and how to remove the old one and how to install the new one with a recap about why its not working now, even though these windows users are 'not as knowledgeable about computers'.
    Are you seriously saying that you had trouble installing programs and hardware on windows? Windows is a bloody step-by-step guide....
    at this stage I'm thinking you probably don't need linux

    It just goes to show that knowledge is power and power corrupts.
    Ignorance is bliss - hope you enjoy it

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    28
    Thank you for exemplifying my point about linux users.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    2,606
    My point is that if you really aren't prepared to read any online documentation about linux then forget it - all the help you need is online as howtos and step by step guides from other users may not work at all.

    you see, hardware is all different and hardware problems are usually quite different - now imagine that you ask

    "hay guyz - I 4r3 hav1ng t3h trouble with my scanz0r5"

    firstly you haven't mentioned any details so the problem isn't really narrowed down,

    "itz 4 3ps0n"

    great...so go look at epsons page and see if they offer drivers

    "c4n't j00 t3ll m3 how to d0 1t h3r3? - 1 r t3h l4zy"

    uhm, well see - I don't own an epson scanner and I don't have the technical documents with me here - for every known device ever made"

    You see linux users probably point you to a 'howto' or official page because they don't know how exactly to do something...hey..we're only human.

    "j00 suck - I t1nk linux is t3h g31gh and linux us3rs are t3h unhelpful"

    "Well, sorry we couldn't help you get the motivation to read some documents or download some drivers, maybe if you were more specific with your problem, users wouldn't seem so stubborn or arrogant about helping you."
    Even though the problem seems to lie in an unwillingness to solve a problem by yourself - or even reading the guide somewhere else....not everything in life will be handed to you on a plate.

    "h4r, t4nkz 4 3x3mplify1n9 my p01nt ab00t linux userZ"

    later dude...
    Last edited by stu_hacking; 01-16-2005 at 11:51 AM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    1,572
    Originally posted by iamdt
    My main turn off about linux is how stuck up the users are.
    well, all your post shows me is that you have your nose so high up in the air, that if it would rain, you would drown.

    You try to get help with it and THEY USUALLY TRY TO MAKE YOU LOOK OR FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT.
    erm, not true. usually people, especially here, are quite appreciative when someone trys to start to use linux. example is when MVP came into #linux in IRC and asked for help. did i tell him to RTFM? no. if you would like the logs of the conversation, please don't hesitate to ask.

    Especially if you ask an honest question like 'why should I use linux?' Their answer for everything is to read 20 page howtos, even if they know a simple 10-word answer to your question.
    well, if you don't know what you wanna use Linux for then you shouldn't even think of downloading an iso.

    If they do give you an answer, they will intentionally use jargon instead of a step by step procedural help. Example, if you asked how to make the sound work on your soundcard, you'd get 'recompile the kernal, read the sound howto'. If you asked a windows user you would more likely get a step by step on how to find the new driver and how to remove the old one and how to install the new one with a recap about why its not working now, even though these windows users are 'not as knowledgeable about computers'.
    Really eh? well this can relate to the conversation me and MVP had the other night. here, don't even ask for the logs, i'll just post them at the end. then you can see how wrong you are.

    It just goes to show that knowledge is power and power corrupts.
    so being a stupid dumb@$$ means you're a pure person? i think not.

    here's the log of my convo with MVP.

    [19:13:02] •›› Join: [|UED|MVP] [~UEDMVP@buz-156A8DE2.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net]
    [19:13:56] [|UED|MVP] This noob's partitions died when installing Linux, install froze half way in the middle hehe =]
    [19:14:43] [mematrix] lol
    [19:15:20] [mematrix] what distro did you use?
    [19:15:25] [|UED|MVP] Mandrake
    [19:16:17] [mematrix] ah. well i dunno about mandrake, but in RedHat9, you can check the disks at startup. does Mandrake have this feasture and if so, did you check it?
    [19:16:48] [|UED|MVP] Hmmmm... not that I know of.
    [19:17:21] [mematrix] humm, did you check the md5sums of the iso's?
    [19:17:31] [|UED|MVP] Nope.
    [19:17:31] [|UED|MVP] =]
    [19:17:47] [|UED|MVP] They are fine, this has happened to me before too.
    [19:17:50] [mematrix] hehe well it might be cause of a corrupt disk
    [19:17:52] [mematrix] oh
    [19:17:55] [mematrix] hmm
    [19:18:12] [mematrix] have you installed just on that system?
    [19:18:14] [|UED|MVP] Its prolly a user error
    [19:18:38] [mematrix] or on multiple and you got the same error?
    [19:18:59] [|UED|MVP] lol, my family would kill me if I installed it on theirs haha
    [19:19:04] [mematrix] lol
    [19:19:11] [|UED|MVP] Yeap just mine
    [19:19:35] [mematrix] humm, what partitions did you have?
    [19:19:40] [mematrix] just / and swap?
    [19:19:42] [|UED|MVP] Last time I just increased the Swap and it worked... Ill try to install it again after exams
    [19:19:50] [|UED|MVP] ext3 and swap
    [19:20:20] [mematrix] yeah. sometimes the swap and real memory runs out and it halts...what did you have it set to this time?
    [19:21:24] [|UED|MVP] Thats the user error, I didnt know hahaha
    [19:21:37] [mematrix] hehe
    [19:21:45] [|UED|MVP] I just told it to use left over space from windows partition
    [19:21:52] [mematrix] ah
    [19:22:03] [mematrix] you most likely didn't set it up right then 8)
    [19:22:30] [|UED|MVP] Yeap, Im used to that X]
    [19:22:42] [mematrix] here's what ya do for a dual boot...you want a dual boot correct?
    [19:22:54] [|UED|MVP] Its my trigger finger's fault, likes to click buttons
    [19:23:06] [mematrix] lmao
    [19:23:29] [|UED|MVP] The install sets up bootloader.
    [19:23:58] [mematrix] yeah, but you still need to setup the partitions correctly 8)
    [19:24:03] [mematrix] ok, here's what ya do:
    [19:24:22] [|UED|MVP] Okay =]
    [19:24:53] [|UED|MVP] Currently, I got Parition 1 = WIndows, Partition 2 = Linux, Partion 3 = swap
    [19:25:03] [|UED|MVP] I used partition magic for that
    [19:25:19] [|UED|MVP] part. 2 = 20 gb, part. 3 = 2 gb
    [19:25:30] [mematrix] minimize the space of the windows partition so you get some free space. then from that free space create a swap partition (200mb should be plenty). then make a ext partition from the remaining free space (on the /)
    [19:25:51] [|UED|MVP] On the / ?
    [19:25:59] [mematrix] that's all that's requiered
    [19:26:08] [mematrix] you can go ahead and make as many as you choose
    [19:26:13] [mematrix] but / is requiered
    [19:26:21] [mematrix] brb. dinner
    [19:26:28] •›› Nick: [mematrix] is now known as [mematrix|dinner]
    [19:26:39] [|UED|MVP] Okay, have fun =]
    [19:26:45] [|UED|MVP] what is / though? =[
    [19:26:45] [|UED|MVP] what is / though? =[
    [19:26:49] [|UED|MVP] *=]
    [19:27:02] [|UED|MVP] Like root? =]
    [19:35:00] •›› Nick: [mematrix|dinner] is now known as [mematrix]
    [19:35:02] [mematrix] aye, root
    [19:35:37] [mematrix] you know like in apache, the / in www.something.com/ is the webroot
    [19:35:48] [mematrix] in linux is like the top dir
    [19:35:55] [mematrix] * / in linux is like the top dir
    [19:36:04] [mematrix] so /=C:\
    [19:36:15] [|UED|MVP] ahhh ROger=]
    [19:36:22] [|UED|MVP] *Ahhh Roger.
    [19:41:47] [|UED|MVP] Welp, I'll try it again Thursday (When exams end.) Good Night, thanks mematrix. =]
    [19:41:57] •›› Quit: [|UED|MVP] [~UEDMVP@buz-156A8DE2.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] [|UED|MVP]

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    7,090
    iamdt, I wouldn't go blaming Linux users for being arrogant and elitist before you analyze the questions you may have asked first. For example, the question "How do I use Linux?" is a bad one. It is too open ended, and generally, Howtos or FAQs wil be a better resource than any person can help with. Don't expect people to bend over backwards to carry your hand through everything Linux.

    If you ask something like, "How do I set up a web server?", then something simple as telling you to check out Apache and reading the docs to get that set up is an excellent answer. Now, if you need help with apache, generally a specific question will be even further help. Rather than saying "How do I use apache?", maybe a question like "How do I enable the Apache daemon to run every time I boot Linux?" would get you a much better, more specific step by step answer.

    Then there are certain questions that to an extent, I will be willing to answer, even though step by step instructions are provided. Things such as installing nVidia or ATI drivers. I'm usually more willing to help with ATI drivers as they are a little more difficult to install and use, and even more willing to help with ATI on Suse as you can't just go to ATIs website to download the drivers.

    If I know an answer to a specific question, I'll try and help as best as I can, however, if I don't know the answer, I can try and forward you to some documentation, such as Howtos or Man pages. They would give you a better information than I could on the subject.

    Keep in mind though, Google is your friend, and asking one person too many questions can get annoying.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    2,606
    I'm also very willing to help,

    but one hing that gets me a littled annoyed is people blaming the linux community for their own attempts failing.

    anyway - if you feel that linux gurus are arrogant then you should read this thread - it includes various tips on etiguette when asking for help and also outlines the different reasons for using linux.

    (also note that this is the first sticky in this forum )

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    3,427
    but really peopel think linux users are like this when really you see it all teh tie in the maya, 3ds max, xsi etc forums.

    People are a simple question, without showing any evidence of trying to search for the answer. Im no linux guru in fact im kind of a novice when it comes to this OS, but if i have a question that is so simple i would prefer a link than a step by step, that way i can look at the rest of the site to see what other solutions they solve etc.
    site


    insert witty comment here

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,564
    I too am relativily new to linux I use it on a day to day basis for things other than gaming. Basically to learn it the best thing to do is read the how-to's I will bet there is not 1 person out there with the exception of linus torvalds and the core developers that have not used 1 how-to to learn linux.

    The reason linux is so documented on learning is basically it is an OS based on the internet it thrives on the internet without it linux would never have happened and more than likely neither would have the internet scince apache was first based on linux and hosting webpages before the internet was around as the internet. But anyway without how-tos there is no way to learn except in a class room and even there they will use how-to's.

    I can also give you short answer to why you should use linux. Becuase one day it will dominate the market in the OS field and if you learn it now you can have a heads up on it. On getting snotty responses from people that is probably because you did no research at all or if you did the way you phrased the question did not sound like it. Honestly I will help people but am not to partial to helping them if I can tell they didn't even try to fix it themselves before asking unless they are on a deadline then it is another story.

    I also use to be in your shoes I saw no reason to use linux i though why in the world would people use something so hard to use. After using it about 6 months now I know why because it is fun and it is like learning a new program once you learn it it is easy but until then it seems impossible. Take photoshop for example before i started using it i used fireworks i was good in fireworks. Well i heard about photoshop so i decided to give it a shot man was it difficult to use i didnt understand how to use half of the tools or anything. Well i just stuck with it and now i use it more than any other image editing software around.

    See if you think that linux users are stuck up and wont help and if they do then they use jargon that over your head I have 2 things to say.

    1 After using linux for a while you will pick up on the jargon and know what people are talking about.

    2 look here there are a lot of people that just tried to help you. Yes they bashed you but that was becuase you pissed them off with inflamitory remarks do you expect anything less.

    Again this is just me a linux guy trying to help you. Please think about it. Use linux it is fun and you might enjoy it.

    Also if you get a debian based distro such as Simply Mepis, knoppix, or ubuntu. It has apt-get which they have I heard somewere 16,000 programs drivers and such on there servers for you to install with typing in a simple command apt-get install package or using synaptic there is a gui interface for using it which is easy and there are lots of how-to's that are easy to understan on getting you going with it.

    again me helping you with no bickering.

    So have fun enjoy come here if you have questions.
    JapanGaku - Blog about Japan, J-Drama, and the Japanese Language
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  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    25
    All of the linux distros do what they do and they do it they way they do it. There is nothing wrong with that. It is good that linux is in existance if everything where like windows then there would be know escape from what windows allows you to do. The linux distros allow some freedom and functionality that i think needs to exist. If linux dosnt work for you dont use it, use whatever works for what you need to do.

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