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  1. #51
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    Nov 2004
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    67

    In a Gentle Voice.....

    Originally posted by ArtisticVisions


    One thing I find very troubling about FS is their total lack of Traditional Arts courses. The majority of schools that offer degrees/programs in animation require you to take traditional art class such as life drawing, illustration, and sculpting. The reason why is because these classes teaches you the principles behind animation, behind the "Illustions of Life" if you will. I don't care what anyone says: without the principles, skills, and understanding behind what you are learning to do/become, you will FAIL!!!

    Another issue that has been talked about is the cost. College is expensive, there is no question behind that; however, some places cost more and offer a lot less. I believe Full Sail is one such school (this is my own opinion here, so don't shoot me).
    One thing I encourage anyone thinking about going into a carreer such as animation or game design is this: Find out what the courses you need to take for that degree. Find as many classes as you can that are offered at you local community college (or similar classes that will transfer in place of the program classes) and take those classes there. You will save hundreds, if not even thousands, of dollars by doing this instead of taking all of your classes at the school where the degree is offered (which is just plain stupid...... unless you're a rich kid.....)
    Well I have the brochure and they didn't see anything about traditional arts being taught. The animation school I came from didn't offer that either. Bringing Traditional Arts in the course is a great idea but it would take longer to graduate since traditional arts is VERY robust and have many tricks to it. I don't see why people would complain about "lack of traditional art classes". If they wanted that in the first place they should have went to a true "traditional art & animation school" such as the sheridan institute in canada("which is very good") before attending fullsail. It's common sence to know if a school offers what YOU want by research, getting the brochure. It would be stupid to just jump into a school without research. Someone commented that you can become a doctor for less than $58.000 . My cousin is a doctor and I can assure you that's alot cheaper than what it really cost. And who cares about being a doctor? This is about peoples dreams in media.

    Another thing "MONEY". Will $58.000 ( provided that there's financial aid and grants etc.) keep you away from your ultimate dreams? Well not me. You have big dreams you have to take big(smart) chances. You don't have to be rich to go any college. GET A JOB, save up for a while and go for you dream. With financial aid and grants(free money) it'll probably cover HALF the cost like my previous college did. If it doesn't then that means you're making a fairly good enough ammount of money and you don't need as much. So money is not an excuse for top level education. Many school offer animation but not game development. The 2 best schools for Gamedev in usa is 1. FULLSAIL and 2. DIGIPEN. The cost is high because it's very scarce at this time and the game industry is now bigger than the movie industry.

    Yeah game companies probably blacklist FS grads but who says someone that attended there is trying to get into any game company. Maybe this student intends to start a small animation or game company of his own apon graduation( like I intend to ). Maybe the person just want to create indie games etc.

    Exposed wrote a good article warning about fullsail which was a very good thing to do. Maybe someone had dreams of getting into the industry or had dreams about the perfect school where you just sit back and learn EXACTLY what your imagination brought foward, then it would be aiming at them. BUT again everbody is different and has different dreams.

    Oh deathmonkey, I'm starting next year august *maybe. I'm just trying to save up $15,000, I'm pretty close . And to all Yes it's posible when you have a JOB!
    Last edited by IllKingdom; 12-03-2004 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #52
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    Nov 2004
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    21
    Originally posted by IllKingdom
    [Schools telling students to "get out while they are ahead"] is totally false dude. You have to maintain a certain grade to even stay in the school.
    For everyone's information: Fullsail's stated policy is that you may attempt a class twice, and that you have 1.5x the total length of your intended program to complete it successfully (i.e. you have 21 months to complete a 14 month program). There are several instances of students retaking courses numerous times (not for free, of course) until they eventually pass.

    Originally posted by IllKingdom
    no university or college would tell you to "get out while they are ahead" because they are "Companies".They have to pay the teachers get equipment etc. They need as much money as they can get.
    Private institutions such as Fullsail are indeed companies looking at the bottom line, therefore they will do what they can to keep a student in the program because otherwise they don't get paid. In my opinion, Fullsail takes this pursuit to the extreme.

    State universities are a good example of the opposite, because they are not "companies" in the sense you are using. Teachers aren't paid by the student, they're salaried. If they suggest a student drop a class, it's because they're trying to look out for a student's best interests. I doubt any teacher at such a school would ever suggest a student drop out.

    State and private universities also get large state government subsidies to pay for their staff and equipment. The rest is of course, paid by the students as tuition. If anyone follows the news you may be familiar with Governor Bob Erlich (R - MD) having cut funding for higher education to Maryland schools (public and private). These cuts have resulted in tuition increases of 40-50% at the University of Maryland in just two short years. Those subsidies make a difference.

    Illkingdom: You have diligently researched Fullsail, so you should be well aware of what lies ahead (especially after reading my article ), and have made that decision free of the influence of their light show. Good luck.

    You mentioned that between financial aid and grants that you figure half of your tuition will be paid for. Financial aid helped me to pay for all of my tuition, but "aid" simply means "loans." All it does is delay the inevitable cost. If you can get grants to slice off some of the costs of tuition then more power to you, but I doubt that the amount you recieve will increase proportionally to the increase in tuition you are about to face.

    Lastly, your suggestion people get a job to pay for Fullsail is unrealistic. While attending FS you just don't have the time, and most local businesses will not hire FS students because they are aware of the hours and just don't have the flexability to accommodate your schedule. You have managed to save almost $15K, and that's great! You'll need that money to live off of while you go to school for 21 months, but it's doubtful any of that money will be left to take a bite out of your tuition bill (unless you're local and living with family, then chomp away).

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA.
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    1,565
    Bringing Traditional Arts in the course is a great idea but it would take longer to graduate since traditional arts is VERY robust and have many tricks to it.
    Your point being?
    (I mean, what does it matter how long it takes you to graduate if you're able to get a better education?)

    It's common sence to know if a school offers what YOU want by research, getting the brochure. It would be stupid to just jump into a school without research.
    Yes, but recieving a brochure/catalog directly from the college isn't enough research to accurately know the reputation of the school; you have to research other schools and how they match up to the school, as well as other issues (like the hiring rate of their graduates).

    Yeah game companies probably blacklist FS grads but who says someone that attended there is trying to get into any game company. Maybe this student intends to start a small animation or game company of his own apon graduation( like I intend to ). Maybe the person just want to create indie games etc
    In which case, that person is better off buying the software on his/her own and going the self-taught route. (it'll cost you a lot less, to boot )

    Lastly,
    With financial aid and grants(free money) it'll probably cover HALF the cost like my previous college did. If it doesn't then that means you're making a fairly good enough ammount of money and you don't need as much. So money is not an excuse for top level education.
    As someone who is currently attending college, I seriously have to disagree with that answer. There are so many people who apply for finacial aid and grants that most of the students who really need them won't get them. Again, the best advice I ever heard (the one thing I want everyone to know about and consider) is this:
    Originally posted by ArtisticVisions
    One thing I encourage anyone thinking about going into a carreer such as animation or game design is this: Find out what the courses you need to take for that degree. Find as many classes as you can that are offered at you local community college (or similar classes that will transfer in place of the program classes) and take those classes there. You will save hundreds, if not even thousands, of dollars by doing this instead of taking all of your classes at the school where the degree is offered
    Last edited by ArtisticVisions; 12-03-2004 at 03:40 PM.
    My eyes are open, yet I continue to dream....

  4. #54
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    Nov 2004
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    67

    Talking in a smartypants dialog

    "As someone who is currently attending college, I seriously have to disagree with that answer. There are so many people who apply for finacial aid and grants that most of the students who really need them won't get them."

    I don't believe that at all!! If someone NEEDS financial aid, it means they are making UNDER the required amount not to get it. I too just came out of college from an 18 month coarse and I never heard of anyone not getting financial aid who NEEDS it. It's just simply not possible. The people who don't get it are people who make enough money a year to pay for it themselves. It has nothing to do with race, culture or religious beliefs.It's not a random pick of who gets and who doesn't. That would be unfair now wouldn't it? You should go to your financial aid representative and ask him what the requirements for financial aid are.

    {quote}"Your point being?
    (I mean, what does it matter how long it takes you to graduate if you're able to get a better education?)"{end quote}

    I just came out of college. With the things I learnt and the artistic skill I already have, I don't want to do traditional art in a "digital media like" college.It would just be wasting my time if I go take animation classes there and have to go through about 2 years of traditional art. Besides a complete Traditional art course can be a full four years. Why go through that when you just wanted to learn animation. I can understand unskilled students may need to take art classes aside from fullsail if they wanted to. But what if they don't want to? I know alot of people that just don't like to draw but love 3d animation! It may even be easier for them to express theirselves in 3d. Yes there is people that are great in 3d and totally suck in traditional arts, and guess what? Thay love it!


    The self taught method is GREAT! I studied 3ds max, c++, some openGL and DirectX though books, but it's not enough. I have tons of books on programming but I still feel the need to go to a great college. I'm sure i'll learn alot more in alot less time than I would with books and have a better experience in school where I will be communicating with other people than sticking in a room all by my self going crazy trying to figure out errors in my code all just to say " I learnt this all by my self". That doesn't make any sence doesn't it?

    {quote} "For everyone's information: Fullsail's stated policy is that you may attempt a class twice, and that you have 1.5x the total length of your intended program to complete it successfully (i.e. you have 21 months to complete a 14 month program). There are several instances of students retaking courses numerous times (not for free, of course) until they eventually pass." {end quote}

    Good these students are determined. The college is not sopposed let a student that fails retake the class for free.That was just my point. You have to maintain a certain score to stay in the school, if you fail and don't pay you're not going to be able to continue your education in that or ANY school.Failure is NOT the schools fault but the Student. All school let you return a certain amount of time to try again if you fail as long as you pay for that class again. They never have you take it free. This is the real world.

    To exposed: I'm not trying to make you sound bad or anything like that. I appericate the article you wrote on this topic! It's really helpful that someone took their time to write it but I'm afraid i'm hard headed and going to attend anyway , and If you see my in 2 years writing about how fullsail sucks, then it really does because i'm determined on sucess!! As you have seen me back it up to the fullest.

    But please it anyone know of a better school in the USA that teaches me what I want to learn( Game Development ), tell me.
    I don't care about the industry or any game company! I just want THE BEST school to learn what I want to learn it's that simple. Thankyou.

    This thread is giving my post a sore throat....

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    67
    Originally posted by exposed1



    Illkingdom: You have diligently researched Fullsail, so you should be well aware of what lies ahead (especially after reading my article ), and have made that decision free of the influence of their light show. Good luck.

    Lastly, your suggestion people get a job to pay for Fullsail is unrealistic. While attending FS you just don't have the time, and most local businesses will not hire FS students because they are aware of the hours and just don't have the flexability to accommodate your schedule. You have managed to save almost $15K, and that's great! You'll need that money to live off of while you go to school for 21 months, but it's doubtful any of that money will be left to take a bite out of your tuition bill (unless you're local and living with family, then chomp away).

    Oh when I said save up for a while I meant before you acually go to fullsail. Thankyou again Exposed!! I'll be sure to talk to the students personally before I sign any papers!!. If I doesn't look good I would have $15,000 to do something else with!

    THIS IS MY LAST POST!! THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THIS LITTLE ARGUEMENT. I'm sure alot of my friends will find this useful.

  6. #56
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    Nov 2004
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    21
    Originally posted by IllKingdom
    I'm sure alot of my friends will find this useful.
    And I hope that they do. Please send them this way and ask them to read my work. BTW, I have gotten my first bit of feedback from a prospective student who reconsidered attending Fullsail's game design program. Please visit the site and read his comments.

    http://www.geocities.com/fullsailexposed/

  7. #57
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    Nov 2004
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    In the DRIFT!
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    288
    I went to UAT for a year, couldnt cut it and dropped out. Probably because I was young at the time, but I plan on going back. But is UAT viewed the same as Full Sail? We've gotten people from Valve and Blizzard to come in and talk to the students about jobs and whatnot. Would it be wise to go back?
    3Ds Max freak in the making all thanks to 3D Buzz!

  8. #58
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    Nov 2004
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    If you remember who those people are you could try contacting them for their opinions. If you are looking to go back there just make sure you know exactly what you're getting into, and carefully evaluate your reasons for going there. My only other advice is don't go for anything less than a Bachelor's. As competitive as the market is, you can't do without one.

  9. #59
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    Nov 2004
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    Over 500 hits and counting!

    http://www.geocities.com/fullsailexposed/

  10. #60
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    FullsailExposed has received over 1000 hits! Thank you for visiting!

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