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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    44

    [Update: 16.07.04]Alpha version of my first map [W.I.P][DL]

    Hi @ all!


    Plz look at the last post for latest informations

    I've been working for too long now on my Egypt Assignment Level, and it's still gonna be weeks...

    However, I think it's now at a state at which I can release a first Pre(Pre)AlphaVersion! (~7.07Mb)
    The Archive contains also a Texture Pack and no readme:
    http://members.chello.at/utmapping/D...lphaTemple.rar

    Screenshots:
    http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums...hreadid=391325

    Some Comments:
    • Lightening and Texturing is not finished, also some SMeshes could be removed again
    • The outside part of my level is just a general shape
    • UPDATE:Just 1 room waits to be finished
    • No weapons and no botpaths
    • The skybox is a placeholder, I created it in 1 1/2 minutes with Terragen... Update: The skybox is even uglier now, I used a LowRes-Version to spare some Filesize, and since I not shure yet about the outside shape of my level this one is shurley gonna be replaced
    • There are no Flames or something like that, just two Flamespheres in the Main Hall as placeholders
    • :update: There are no Blocking Volumes added yet, so you can get almost everywhere.. gonna fix that till the AlphaVersion
    • Update(02.07.04):Removed the Zones/Portals again because of some Zoning issues.. gonna be added again when I'm finished with the geometry/SMeshes and Lightening


    Known Bugs/Issues:
    • Waterfallroom: There is no transition-SMesh/Texture/whatever between the two Fluidsurfaces, the waterfalls come out of the ceiling and there is no force in the water pushing you along the waterflow-direction
    • Some Watersurface-Issues outside the small Wallbreakout in the second Mainhall, WaterSurface can be seen through wall(Fixed!)
    • A SMesh (pilar) can be seen through the ceiling at the flatened stairway under the mainhall(Fixed!)


    So now your oppinion is asked! Any bugs? Any suggestions? Any bugs? Is the design good as far as Mapflow is concerned? Any bugs?()

    Lo_Ord
    Last edited by Lo_Ord; 07-16-2004 at 04:54 PM.
    Say no moa!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,150
    I like the layout of the level. Hard to say anything about the flow yet because there aren't any items placed yet.

    Here's a list of things I like about the level:
    • Textures
    • Variety in room design
    • Water useage
    • Lots of jump pads
    • Outdoor jump pad relay
    • Large multi-level rooms
    • Layout of the level


    Things I think you should add:
    • Jump pad boost sounds
    • Waterfall!
    • "Guns. Lots of guns."
    • Booby traps. Like bottomless pits of death, mummy eye-lasers, stuff like that. (Trust me, if you add a few things like this people will love your map.)
    • -Well, not JUST those things, but, you get the idea.


    Things that need to be changed:
    • More believable water. The water is a nice effect, but if it looks totally weird (like water flowing uphill) it will distract the player and take away from the scene.
    • Lighting. The contrast is WAY too high. And by contrast I mean the difference between light and dark. In many areas the light areas are way to bright, and the dark areas are way too dark. You should aim to bring these two extremes MUCH closer to eachother to achieve a more moderate look.
    • Use light sources. It looks weird when there's a glow on the wall but there's no lamp or torch (or something).
    • Skybox. The sky part is good, but the terrain is really really really bright.
    • Change the gametype to xGame.xDeathMatch in the level properties dialog. That facilitates testing.


    Overall I think the level layout is excellent and this map has a lot of potential. However, the lighting definately needs to be fixed, and should be of the highest priority. If it seems like going back and changing all the lights will be too hard, delete them and place them all over. That may seem like you're going back to square one, but it's easier because you can focus on smaller areas at a time and you'll know how much you have left to do (because you wont be able to see in those areas ).

    Certain things like the water usage and the Static Meshes are nice features, but will need some polishing to really shine.

    Here are a few screenshots that I took highlighting various parts of the level and my comments pertaining to them.

    Um, click here.

    -One final note. If you do things in sections (i.e. textures, then lighting, then decoration, then lighting, then other crap) you'll find it much easier. I know you haven't spent much time on the lighting yet, but it's really important.

    -Oh and I forgot to mention, dont use texture packs. I dont mean dont use them in your level, I mean dont put a .utx file with your level. Save all the texutres you use in the map. Import them and save them in the myLevel package. That way you need only one file to distribute your map. Much less of a headache.
    Last edited by SiGARMS; 06-27-2004 at 04:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    44
    Wow, that's a big answer, thx!

    Originally posted by SiGARMS

    Things I think you should add:
    • Jump pad boost sounds
    • Waterfall!
    • "Guns. Lots of guns."
    • Booby traps. Like bottomless pits of death, mummy eye-lasers, stuff like that. (Trust me, if you add a few things like this people will love your map.)
    • -Well, not JUST those things, but, you get the idea.

    Most of the things I added are just to show the general shape and placement, most things and tuning are still missing, e.g. the right jump pads, Weapons, etc...
    I don't know if I like the idea with the booby trap, because I wouldn' t know where to place it. But I will think about it

    Originally posted by SiGARMS

    Things that need to be changed:
    • More believable water. The water is a nice effect, but if it looks totally weird (like water flowing uphill) it will distract the player and take away from the scene.
    • Lighting. The contrast is WAY too high. And by contrast I mean the difference between light and dark. In many areas the light areas are way to bright, and the dark areas are way too dark. You should aim to bring these two extremes MUCH closer to eachother to achieve a more moderate look.
    • Use light sources. It looks weird when there's a glow on the wall but there's no lamp or torch (or something).
    • Skybox. The sky part is good, but the terrain is really really really bright.
    • Change the gametype to xGame.xDeathMatch in the level properties dialog. That facilitates testing.

    • Water: do you mean the texture in general or the shape? I know that some water is missing (in the caveroom) and that there's water flowing in two different directions. But i somehow like the texture (there would be the same texture in the package without that shiny thing, but I somehow can't use it, if I try to play the level then I get an error message )
    • Lightening: Is far off beeing finished, I just wanted to make the level kind of playable. I like your tip with the contrast, will think about it.
    • Lightsources: There are some lights without lightsource, but iirc they should be placed at the sconces... As I wrote above I got no fire-emitters yet...
    • Skybox: Yeah, it's way too bright I was just trying terragen for 10 Minutes. I thnk there is a way to import textures but I yet don't knwo how to do so...


    Originally posted by SiGARMS

    However, the lighting definately needs to be fixed, and should be of the highest priority. If it seems like going back and changing all the lights will be too hard, delete them and place them all over. That may seem like you're going back to square one, but it's easier because you can focus on smaller areas at a time and you'll know how much you have left to do (because you wont be able to see in those areas ).
    Thx for that tip, but as I said, that's going to be one of the last things to do for me

    Originally posted by SiGARMS

    Here are a few screenshots that I took highlighting various parts of the level and my comments pertaining to them.
    Um, click here.
    Ok, answers to the pics:
    1. Water: I'll fix that, it was just an leftover experiment from the beginning of the map
    2.Lightening/Sunlightbeams: I don't know if you mean the lightening in genereal or just the Sunbeamareas are to bright, but I will try to rebalance the lightening in this room in general
    3.Jumppad: I will rework them later (other textures) and I also will lower them so that they look better...
    4.Room with Glyphs: Hmm, I'll perhaps move them to another place, or something like that... I still want to place something there, the room looks too empty in my eyes.. perhaps a statue spitting water into the pools.. Or I'll replace the water with Bottomless Pits
    5.Skybox: The Skybox is not a little too bright, its muchtoo bright! But that's going to bee fixed when I built some terrain so I can see how the skybox has to look.
    6.Outside Area 1: I will work on this part when the inside part is pretty much finished.. I think I will add sort of a temple ruin with two floors and a jumppad in the middle to reach the 2nd floor...
    7. Outside Area 2: I just made the general shape of this part... There are some waterissues there (i mentioned them in my first post), and there's nothing else, no lightening etc. There will be a small waterfall and an item to collect, perhaps a teleporter to someplace else...
    8. Waterreflection: I will definetly add my own shader here, I experimented around yesterday how to make a shader and I think I'm right now quit familiar with it...

    Originally posted by SiGARMS

    -Oh and I forgot to mention, dont use texture packs. I dont mean dont use them in your level, I mean dont put a .utx file with your level. Save all the texutres you use in the map. Import them and save them in the myLevel package. That way you need only one file to distribute your map. Much less of a headache.
    That's still a lot to work on, thx!

    Keep testing

    Lo_Ord
    Say no moa!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    245
    here's my reaction based on the screens:

    1st pic: looks good but the sphinxes on the celing look a little odd upside down, but it works if you want to leave them there.

    2nd pic: I love the lights flowing down from outside, and the textures and layout look good from what I can see.

    3rd pic: see above, a note though...if you want to change the textures the floor is the only thing that could use a bit of help in my opinion, perhaps you could make a few holes in the floor here and there (or just cover the floor with power ups/weapons to distract people from it)

    4th pic: the left wall by the (left) door is a bit too flat, and the water could use a bit of help.

    5th pic: the water needs a little bit of help, I just can't quite tell what though.

    6th pic: fill the room with weapons and power ups, and all of the light (sources) seem a bit excessive.

    7th pic: didn't load properly for me...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    44
    K, thx.

    However, I'm right now working on the last 3-4 inside rooms, here are two pics:


    The pyramid has a selfmade shader, the first one I've ever created!
    Still, it's nothing special but a nice effect...



    Still some pyramids, but this time it's going to bee a litle bit more difficult with the shader. I really like this blue shine which can be seen in this pic. The problem is that these pyramids have a shader from epic aplied, showing the cube map of the CTF-Face03 Scenery and the blue effect seems to be created by the transition between the sky and the horizon of the cubemap... So I will have to look how to recreate this effect, it will take some time...

    Lo_Ord

    P.S.: I haven't updated the download yet, I'll do that when I've finished the outsidepart, which means in a few days hopefully.
    Say no moa!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,150
    Woah that blue one looks awesome! I'm excited to see the next update.

    By the way, I liked your idea of having statues spitting water into the pools.

    Also, as for having more realistic water, just make sure that the direction of the water is logical, and also make sure that the speed at which the water is flowing is somewhat proportional to the size of the water in that area. The large part of water at the very top flows very fast, giving the impression that there's a very large amount of water flowing down, but it doesn't have anywhere to go.

    If you look at a real river, the wide parts flow slowly, and the narrow parts are the rapids. Try to emulate that.
    Last edited by SiGARMS; 06-27-2004 at 06:44 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    44
    Originally posted by SiGARMS
    Woah that blue one looks awesome! I'm excited to see the next update.

    By the way, I liked your idea of having statues spitting water into the pools.

    Also, as for having more realistic water, just make sure that the direction of the water is logical, and also make sure that the speed at which the water is flowing is somewhat proportional to the size of the water in that area. The large part of water at the very top flows very fast, giving the impression that there's a very large amount of water flowing down, but it doesn't have anywhere to go.

    If you look at a real river, the wide parts flow slowly, and the narrow parts are the rapids. Try to emulate that.
    The ideas with the riverflow are great, still it will take some time to modify the texture (it's an epic-original texture im using...) and make it look more realistic.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    You wanted an update? Well, here it comes!
    Since I designed another room today I suddenly encountered some performance issues, so I decided to finaly add Zones/Portals, and this time it seemed to work!

    I would be happy about any comments about the performance!

    UPDATES:

    • New WaterShader in the room with snakes... It's definetly not final, because the angle is not right, it's just to get the idea..
    • 2 of the 3 missing rooms are pretty finished
    • Level is kind of performance optimized, at least I hope so. If you encounter problems according to this optimisation tell me plz!!!(e.g. Holes in the architecture, sudden performance loss in a specific area)


    Bugs/Issues:
    Pretty much the same as mentioned above, but one new:
    • One time I had a big performance loss in the outside area with the jumppads when i looked at the "temple" (I mean the main part of the level), however it didn't occour again.
    • UPDATE!!!forgot to mention that I turned down the lightening in the Waterfallroom, you can hardly see the water... gonna fix that
    Last edited by Lo_Ord; 06-27-2004 at 07:59 PM.
    Say no moa!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,150
    *Readies his stat fps and rmode commands.*

    When do I get to test it?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    44
    It's downloable..... NOW!

    Lo_Ord
    Say no moa!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
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    Ok I playtested it with the framerate displayed. The outside definately shows a zonehole somewhere on the right side (when outside, facing the rest of the map). I didn't go through to find out where it was (dont wanna do all your work for you). However, you'll notice from the screenshots that you can see from the platform outside all the way into the large room with the serpents and the waterfall.

    Also, when standing in the large room with the serpents and the waterfall you can see into a large part of the level that you prolly should not be able to see into. You'll need to add a few more zone portals over there and make sure you've made them sufficient size to seal all the openings. You can goto zone display mode within the editor to see what areas have actually been zoned.

    Also, to adress the issue from the outside view, make sure you zone thuroughly in the hallways that lead outside. You should have a zone portal at both ends of each hallway. I've attached a concept drawing to help.

    The link to the screenshots is here.

    temple001 - View from outside (on the jump platform), shows that you can see all the way into the room with the serpents.
    temple002 - shows that you can see through the wall
    temple003 - same location as 002 but rendered in dynamic lighting so you can tell where it is

    as a point of reference, my FPS in full render mode (dynamic lighting) is usually around 60 fps, and my FPS in wireframe is usally around 115 fps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	hallwayzone.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	64.4 KB 
ID:	29375  
    Last edited by SiGARMS; 06-27-2004 at 10:55 PM.

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