View Poll Results: Is it to late to turn back and prevent the war?

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's never too late...

    23 30.67%
  • It WILL happen...

    47 62.67%
  • Not sure

    5 6.67%
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Results 21 to 30 of 120
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    242
    Machine I assume this statement is directed to me:
    "But I will not defend actions by my country that I feel are not right just because I love my country".

    I don't want a war if we don't have to. Although Sadam is an enabler and a terrorist. As I sated before I don't agree with everything the goverment says.

    Phony, in my first statement I said that this is the sort of thing that can get out of control, and eluded to topics that insight them. I don't agree that this should be a place for political discussion, Highend3D made a blanket statement awhile ago forgoing any political threads in "the Buzz" forum or any forums because it gets out of hand and distracts from the objective of the site. I know this is a different kind of place than HighEnd, but I think it has the same type of goal.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    10
    Hi guys, im new to this site so forgive me if my posts seem to retread others posts, i have read all the posts above but its a lot to take in.
    Its kinda scary that Bush and co actually planned this war before he came into office. I know its an oft made and tenous link but if we look back to world war 2 that war was started by a man who first tried to cheat his way into office with war and world domination in mind, now we have a man who has successfully cheated his way to power and is busy putting his imperialist regime to work.
    This war is going to happen for three reasons:
    -it is in the interest of global corporations
    -it enables bush to control global economics
    -Personal gain for bush (just like his father before him)

    I have seen no evidence that saddam has any such weapons he is said to have, yet i have seen plenty of evidence which i will gladly source and write out here if anyone wishes, that says he hasnt, at least no where near as much as he is accused of. Saddam is not a nice man, but war over oil and control will not do our world any good.
    I marched against war last year in London, and i believe theres another in febuary.
    Bush has to realise that, if he genuinely does wish to put an end to terrorism he has to stop participating in it. My post would normally be a bit more thought out and content full than this but i alwasy get kinda angry when writing about it.
    I guess my views on whether we ourselves can stop war are best summarised in a verse from the song "Viewques puerto Rico:Bikini revisited" By Antiflag:

    "All united all as one, lets make a stand,
    We've got a privilige in the power that we command
    so lets not drown in ignorance and let our strength waste away
    As the richest nation in the world weve got a responsibility.

    All done in your name by uncle sam
    so if we dont fight it then we're guilty too
    so.. stand up, fight back resist refuse
    cause if we dont do it no ones going to!"


    On another note hi everyone.......
    Last edited by Frenzal; 01-16-2003 at 01:41 PM.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK.
    Posts
    16,958
    I was trying to point out that this discussion is important and should be discussed here, I agree thing like this can get out of control but i will be checking it and if it does i will close it as i did with the other thread that started getting silly, As long as these threads are kept in the approprate place (the lounge) and not posted in the 3d forums etc i dont see how this distracts, this is what the lounge is designed for. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one eh? What other sites decide to do is entirely up to them but as far as i know no rules have been broken by me posting this here and i feel its a more suitable thread and contributes more than say a "have you seen this funny cartoon" type thread.


    BTW Hi Frenzel!
    Last edited by phOny; 01-16-2003 at 01:57 PM.
    Complaining is like a rocking chair, It's fun for a while but it doesn't get you anywhere.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own mind
    Posts
    154
    LOL....i can see how these things get totally out of control...this is the problem with typed words....no inflections, no animations, facial changes to see, body language to read etc....

    I wasn't directing that at you soul...shoot, I was just making a point that I don't have "blind" pride, and I wasn't implying that you do either.

    I agree with alot of what has been said in this post. I find it a good place to vent, and to see other views. I also see it as a place for potential misunderstandings of what is being said. And I admit, I am guilty of this myself.

    I have mostly commented on statements that I found to be blanket statements that group a whole people as being of some "characteristic".

    In my day to day workings I come in contact with a part of society that most people try to avoid. But even with this, I see that only a small percentage of the population in this country are prejudice, self-centered and out to get whatever they can. I have seen tragedies as well as stories of ordinary people putting their lives on the lines for perfect strangers. I have seen the masses come together to help those people who have fallen into unfortunate circumstances. And I have seen those who think nothing of taking the life of another over something as trivial as basketball sneakers.

    Do people honestly believe that Bush has no conscience? That someone in his position can lay his head down on the pillow at night and not think about the lives that have already been lost while trying to track down and eliminate the terrorists that make up Al Qaeda? People in those positions have to make the tough decisions....decisions that many of us could not make.

    I do not see the Iraqi people as being the same as Hussein. That would be ludicrous. Just as I don't see all the Germans in the 1940's the same as Hitler.

    All societies have their extremists....and these extremists try to force their points of view on those around them. When one of these types of people get power, they run those under them the same way. This is the same on a large scale as it is on a small scale. I have seen this type of behavior on something the size of a family unit.

    On the oil thing... Iraqi oil only makes up 8% of the US import of oil. There are many other resources. If Iraq stopped producing oil, the US would not come to a grinding halt. Nor would the rest of the world. This talk of war over oil is insane. When we kicked Iraq out of Kuwait, we could have easily have rolled over Iraq and "taken" their oil as some of you say. I find this position to be very weak to say the least.

    machine
    Last edited by machine; 01-16-2003 at 03:23 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    7,090
    Highend3D made a blanket statement awhile ago forgoing any political threads in "the Buzz" forum or any forums because it gets out of hand and distracts from the objective of the site. I know this is a different kind of place than HighEnd, but I think it has the same type of goal.
    Uh oh!! Here comes the mandatory Enygma rebuttal...

    I do agree with that statement in a sense, but only in the sense of Highend 3D being a highend 3D site. 3D Buzz pertains to more of the beginner modeller, animator, etc. And because of that, 3D Buzz will start to attract more members, and then the lounge becomes a place for people like me to just come back to and enjoy some of the discussions that are going on. I don't goto highend 3D just to discuss anything, I do it here because it is a community more open to supporting it. Just something to come kick back to, mainly because most discussion, everywhere from 3D to gaming consoles to politics are inteligent and have a low relivance to flame ratio. Most threads are informative in one way or another and we do have mods to help keep things at an inteligent level and not a flame war. I just kind of stepped in to help stop the flames towards Swiss, but I ended up taking the heat instead.

    However, there has also been suggestions to make a CG and a Non-CG lounge so that if you don't want to just sit back and lounge after a busy day, you can discuss hot topics in the non-CG lounge. However, if you want to look at the latest discussions in 3D and whatnot, you can come to the CG lounge.

    So just to get back to what you said, yes, this place is different, and yes, this place has the same goals as Highend 3D, but it is because we are different that makes 3D Buzz unique, therefore, I spend most of my time here than highend 3D. As I highend 3D site, I don't expect there to be posts about whatever there. The name suggests it. But the community around here has gotten really friendly and open about many topics, and I encourage it to continue to do so.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK.
    Posts
    16,958
    "The Lounge - This is a room for general discussion on any topic that you desire." that says it all really, unless a thread discusses illegal, immoral or offensive topics i think anything should go and unless buzz asks me to stop posting non 3d related topics i will continue to do so... but i will of course monitor them to make sure things stay on topic which this one currently isnt so can we get back to the topic in hand please, if people feel the same as soul and feel this thread should be closed please pm me and ill consider locking it, but i really hope i dont have to do that as people are entitled to express an opinion and if we keep having to close non 3d related threads then the lounge will die.
    Last edited by phOny; 01-16-2003 at 02:01 PM.
    Complaining is like a rocking chair, It's fun for a while but it doesn't get you anywhere.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    36
    One thing bothers me...as a close neighbour to the U.S. I think that most Canadians feel somewhat commited to what "Big Brother" decides to do. However I don't like hypocrites....and I don't mean to offend any Americans out there, but....when I see the arms build up and hear Bush pushing towards war no matter what happens (ie. They've found no nuk's in Iraq or weapons of mass destruction, they've allowed UN inspectors in etc) and on the other hand you have a country (Noth Korea) who pretty well says.."Hey guess what. We're making them and you can all go F**K yourself if you try to stop us" and Bush answers with "We will try and find a diplomatic solution for North Korea". It shows how much of a hyprocrit he is....I'm not saying that Iraq is ANY BETTER than North Korea, I belive that both gov'ts are corrupt...but have some sence man....If you want oil, just say.."We're bigger...stronger...and we want your oil"

    And it wont be much of a war...they'll bomb the F out of everything that moves and then they'll come in with 600 000 troops....the end!
    An idea is salvation by imagination.
    Frank Lloyd Wright (1869 - 1959)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    7,090
    Iraqi oil only makes up 8% of the US import of oil.
    Oil is a major topic when it comes to this war. Even many newspapers around the country state that. It isn't just iraqs oil supply that can be at stake, it is the entire middle east. When you look at the numbers (Taken from Calgary Herald, Saturday, Jan. 11, 2003, Section D1 Business and Classifieds)

    Oil Production in the world:

    Kuwait: 9.2%
    Iran: 8.5%
    UAE: 9.3%
    Iraq: 10.7%
    Saudi Arabia: 24.9%
    Rest of the world: 37.3%

    And of course the rest of the world does include USA, Canada, Asian and European countries. So even if it was 8%, it is still a very large number when you consider how many barrels of oil that is. The biggest worry right now if bush does go to war with iraq is that Saddam would set oil fields on fire again. Yes, the United States does have lots of oil, but mostly in reserves, and they usually dip into the reserves in emergencies. Even OPEC right now is readying to pump more oil into the north american economy to try and prevent the price of oil to skyrocket (Calgary Herald Jan. 9, 2003, OPEC Readies output boost, Section D1). America isn't afraid of having no oil if Iraq closes pipelines to America, they are afraid of higher prices to protect the consumer at the pumps and at home. OPEC is already planning an increase of 1.5 million barrels per day (4 to 7 percent increase) to try and stabilize prices. Oil is a major concern, even if it is 10.7%. Prices go up and one of the biggest and most reliable investments becomes not so reliable to investors, especially if the US has to dip into federal reserves and needs OPEC to increase output as much as 7 percent. These may be small percentages to you, but keep in mind, 4 to 7 percent is 1.5 million barrels of crude per day.

    Edit: To avoid posting more than I need to... soul, I ddn't say you called him an idiot. I said a few large posts implied he was one for saying it. I didn't point at you specifically, so don't get me wrong on that.
    I added my comments as an edit because I don't want to point this topic in the wrong direction again.
    Last edited by enygma; 01-16-2003 at 02:49 PM.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    242
    First of all I wan't to make eveyone aware (enygma) I never once called Chris an idiot, I said I found his statement offencive.

    Phony, thanks for seeing my point. After thinking about it and reviewing the differnt lounge topics, the community has developed here where a free flow of ideas is taking place and to censor it would hurt the underlying structure of the forum. I just hope people can be sensative to the rest of us with differing opinions.

    Hey machine what city do you protect, I have (had) family on the force.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Aspen, Colorado
    Posts
    662
    Howdy folks, Here's how I see it, Saddam and others all respond differently to threats of force IMO I think Saddam will do as he pleases until he sees a huge force deployed near his back yard (ie what Bush is doing) I don't think War is a forgone conclusion, I think it's more like chess Show your opponent one thing to force them into an action. Korea's Leader I feel is more of an angry beligerant child, if you approach him with anger he digs his heels in and pushes harder, if you use a little bribery and reverse psycology you can get a lot further, there is no exact science to dealing with children let alone World Leaders who act like children all are different and need to be handled in different methods.
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