View Poll Results: Is it to late to turn back and prevent the war?

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's never too late...

    23 30.67%
  • It WILL happen...

    47 62.67%
  • Not sure

    5 6.67%
Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 120
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own mind
    Posts
    154
    "...am not going to bash SwissChris from calling bush a "mad man" because he has a better view as to what is going on in the US than most people in the US do."

    What kind of statement is this? There are over 250 million Americans and you make a statement like this? For all you know, SwissChris could be 12 years old and have very little knowledge of world affairs....LOL In order to make the statement you made, you would have to have intimate knowledge of at least half of the US population (using the word most, I assume that could mean 51% or more).

    Now I'm not bashing you....just trying to take a rational and logical look at what is actually being said. I am just trying to get you to take a good look at what you are actually saying, and then asking you, is this what you are really trying to say?

    I also noticed that you are from Canada. Does SwissChris also have a better view of what is going on in Canada than most Canadiens do? Or does it just hold true to Americans?

    Are you of the opinion that most Americans are ignorant robots who have no clue as to what is going on in the world? Do you see all Americans as fat and spoiled and rich and unconcerned about the suffering that is going on around the world?

    Does SwissChris actually know Bush? Does SwissChris have access to the same classified information that the president of the US does?

    If there was absolutely no basis for the accusations against Iraq, why would countries like Russia and many of the Arab countries be pressuring Iraq to fill in the holes of their reports to the UN? Why would any of those countries even accept the UN charter that has now brought inspectors back into Iraq? A common analysis of the actions and reactions of all the countries invovled must point to the fact that something must be going on there.

    Please don't take this personally, but I think what you are saying presupposes a knowledge of information that you don't actually have access to. Therefore, you are making assumptions that are probably not correct. And when a person, any person, makes these kinds of statements that are held up by nothing but air, they are open to analysis that will in the end cause such opinions and statements to collapse.

    machine

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    2,538
    You don't deploy over 200 thousand soldiers only to recall them in some weeks.
    They will end up doing some work. Personally I think saddam is just looking for ways to get us to spend money.

    Hopefully; at the risk of bruising bush's ego; blix comes back and says "unmistakably Iraq poses no threat to us or anyone in the middle eastern region"
    We may have spent hundreds of millions to deploy; but it seems needless to spend lives where they aren't needed.

    My biggest concern really is Korea. They appear to be more than willing to brandish bombs they may or may not have yet. Though right now it appears both sides are barking at one another in the hopes that the other will capitulate.
    Both are doing it subtly so that might not be a hotzone for much longer

    After that I suppose its off to hunting terrorists with extreme prejudice. Screw imprisonment; just execute them on the spot.

    As for a 2nd stab at somolia; bush isn't on any humanitarian missions. Somolia is probably on the list; but its last.

    so yeah
    maybe it will end there.

    As for who will get their ass handed to them
    realistically speaking Iraq would fall within a month
    and the odds would be significantly stacked against north korea

    militarily victory would be fairly simple

    politically it would be a nightmare. US politicians aren't known to let the military do its job no matter what happens (somalia is an excellent example of this; as is vietnam)
    ___________________________

    That Old Russell
    AKA
    TOR

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    242
    Originally posted by enygma
    However, someone posting their views on what is going on in the world, and you want the debate or discussion to go someplace else, that is not really fair to the people that treat the lounge like a community where they can post their thoughts about any topic they desire, and will do little to detract sponsors, but can show the inteligence of some of the members on this forum when they read through legitimate debates on a forum, especially when it deals with the current crisis with Iraq.
    Its one thing to treat this place where people can exchange thoughts, its another to offend people by calling the leader of your country a "mad man". This thread will not show intelligence, but ignorance and insensitivity. This website was not intended to push people apart by their own political views but bring us together through art.

    I am not trying to bash anyone either, I am using Chris's statement as an example.
    Last edited by soul; 01-16-2003 at 12:10 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own mind
    Posts
    154
    well said 1000101

    I too would rather see it not come down to war. Young kids losing their lives because the problem isn't solved diplomatically. But in life not every problem can be solved with words. If it could, you wouldn't need police... I see it every single day that I work. Some people are hell bent on paths of destruction and they don't care who they step on, or even kill, to get what they want.

    Hussein is one of those people who has managed to get into power. If you don't think so, just remember his track record. He invaded Kuwait, and if he wasn't forced out, he would still be there.

    nuff said here.

    machine

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    7,090
    I also noticed that you are from Canada. Does SwissChris also have a better view of what is going on in Canada than most Canadiens do? Or does it just hold true to Americans?
    Please realize that he is making this point based on a what he sees and his opinions. Please, just because I am trying to make his comment legitimate, doesn't mean I hate americans. Mabey in some other country, they view Bush as a mad man because they don't agree with what he does. Do you prefer him to pic a synonym to that?
    Are you of the opinion that most Americans are ignorant robots who have no clue as to what is going on in the world? Do you see all Americans as fat and spoiled and rich and unconcerned about the suffering that is going on around the world?
    No. I am not one to classify 250 million individuals as the same. That would be like saying all teens are hooligans, or all people you chat with on the internet are probably stalkers. But as a Canadian I am subject to alot of American television and publications and do see alot of news coming from the american prespective. Think of this debate for example. I think that what I type is right, and you think what you type is right. Because I am me, I can understand my views on what I am typing, same with you. But you may see my views as evil and I may highly disagree with your views. Now take that in the prespective of countries, do you see where I am trying to go with this?
    Please don't take this personally, but I think what you are saying presupposes a knowledge of information that you don't actually have access to.
    I know I don't know a whole lot on this subject, that is why I tried not to post anything that would in turn make me seem like a fool for lack of knowledge, so I don't even see why you made this remark. I am just justifying that Swiss has his opinion, and whether you think it is wrong or right doesn't mean you have to flame him.
    Its one thing to treat this place where people can exchange thoughts, its another to offend people by calling the leader of your country a "mad man".
    I think the leader of my country is a moron. I am proud to be canadian, but not to the point that if someone was to call my leader a mad man, based on his opinion and views, I would not go out of my way to flame him for it. Even if I liked the way our PM was leading the country, I wouldn't. Pride is something that can lead to hate (Hence why it is one of the 7 deadly sins). I am not defending Iraq. I never even mentioned anything really pertaining to the war in Iraq so I don't know why you guys are puting information into my mouth.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    242
    Originally posted by enygma

    I think the leader of my country is a moron. I am proud to be canadian, but not to the point that if someone was to call my leader a mad man, based on his opinion and views, I would not go out of my way to flame him for it. Even if I liked the way our PM was leading the country, I wouldn't. Pride is something that can lead to hate (Hence why it is one of the 7 deadly sins). I am not defending Iraq. I never even mentioned anything really pertaining to the war in Iraq so I don't know why you guys are puting information into my mouth.
    That fine you can dis-like the leader of your own country. But I like G.W. Bush, he isn't perfect. Nor do I agree with every thing he says, for example his stance on stem cell technology.

    I have to disagree with you, pride in ones county (or to be "proud to be a Canadian") is a good thing, if you hate your country then why bother being there. I love America, I have been to a bunch of different counties and there is no place I would rather be. I have several Canadian friends that moved here permently and said they are going to seek citizenship because they hate the Canadian goverment.

    My posts were not to "flame" Chris as I stated in my previous post.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own mind
    Posts
    154
    Well spoken on the pride part soul.

    But I will not defend actions by my country that I feel are not right just because I love my country. Obviously, as in all things in life, there are good things that we as a country are doing, and bad things that we as a country are doing. However, as a whole, I believe the good outweigh the bad, so I love my country. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Well maybe Australia, cause I love those accents. (or even england too...Germany is pretty...Italy has great food....er..... maybe I would live somewhere else...lol)

    Pride is something that can lead to hate (Hence why it is one of the 7 deadly sins).
    Pride in and of itself is not a bad thing. It is bad when it blocks the entrance of the Truth.


    I am not defending Iraq. I never even mentioned anything really pertaining to the war in Iraq so I don't know why you guys are puting information into my mouth
    This thread subject is about the war with Iraq. I just assume that it is the pivot point of the discussion.

    Innervision961....something in your writing gives me the feeling that you aren't american. And if you actually are, perhaps we should fill your house with all your family and allow Hussein to place one of those newly found biological warheads inside and threaten to detonate it. Would that change your mind?

    ....but today America is a shamefull place to live, a place full of prejudice, and uneducated masses doing only what the media and TV say is the right thing to do...
    Oh please...another blanket statement. I have to rest. This kind of talk gives me a headache.

    I have no doubt that the inspectors will find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Hussein is a liar and has been lying all along. There is nothing in the past 10 years that would indicate the he somehow has changed.

    machine
    Last edited by machine; 01-16-2003 at 01:09 PM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK.
    Posts
    16,958
    Originally posted by soul
    A week ago in the thread "Critter's Back" Buzz had asked to keep the posts in the forums from getting out of control and keep it focused, because we have sponsors and people in the industry watching what’s going on here. I can easily see this getting out of control. It has already started with SwissChris calling Bush a “mad man”. Which I find offensive, it makes it hard for me to come to this site when I see threads that are against the American government. Eventually I think I will have to stop coming here all-together if this persists. I would hope that this place, including the lounge, could be more focussed on 3D rather than politics (there are other political forums out there for you to discuss this). I think that the intention of the lounge was meant to be a light-hearted place people could exchange ideas and news about art.
    Im sorry but i dont see how a discussion on war that will affect many of us will have a negative effect regarding the sponsors, the critter thing was a whole different kettle of fish as it turned in to a playground. I didnt glamorise war in my post i was simply after peoples opinions, i have seen a few people say that certain posts dont belong in the lounge but in my opinion this is very important and deserves a place much more than other things that get posted here. The lounge is for non 3d related topics hence the title " The Lounge - This is a room for general discussion on any topic that you desire." it doesnt say its a light hearted place to discuss 3d, I dont want anyone to stop coming here so all i can say is that if you only want to read 3d related topics it might be best to avoid the lounge. The title of this thread wasnt misleading in any way and i never pretended it was 3d themed so why did you read it if you are only interested in 3d related posts? People are entitled to their opinions so please dont get offended when people criticise the us goverment, we all have different views thats what makes a forum work, it would be boring if we all thought the same wouldnt it?
    Last edited by phOny; 01-16-2003 at 01:12 PM.
    Complaining is like a rocking chair, It's fun for a while but it doesn't get you anywhere.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    7,090
    Let me clarify, Pride is not an extreme. It is not "either you are proud or you aren't". There are varying degrees of pride. Having too much pride in a country to the point where you would attack someone who says something bad about it is just wrong. Swiss said Bush is mad. OK. So he thinks bush is mad. But how does that justify a few large posts of implying he is an idiot for saying that? I can understand that it is his view.

    I am Proud to be Canadian. But not because of my government, but because I just enjoy living here. Especially where I live. But then again I don't think anyone should be proud of their country because of politics. I enjoy the fact that I can drive 3 minutes to work and have a beautiful view of the mountains, that I can drive for 1 hour to some of the best ski resorts in the world, that I can go to a bar and have really good beer. (If someone bashes canadian beer, you are ALL DEAD!!! *mood lightener*)

    But am I proud to the point where I have to criticize someone for bashing our countries leader with a fairly long post and on top of that, say he is proud to be American. (BTW machine you didn't offend me at all, I am just trying to make a point). That is what I am trying to get at. I do understand that when things do get heated up, everyone tends to strap on their flame retardant suits, so I just want to make sure you guys do understand what I am trying to say and in no way am bashing any of your views. But it does get aggrivating when I see words being put into my mouth, and I do try to review posts to make sure that I am correct IMHO before I post and have covered everything (lately, my views on things have been unpopular so I am getting used to having to explain myself). So lets all be humble about this... and have a Canadian Beer!!

    Edit
    Pride in and of itself is not a bad thing. It is bad when it blocks the entrance of the Truth.
    But I did say CAN lead to hate. Not WILL lead to hate, which opens the topic of varying degrees of pride which I explained up above.
    Last edited by enygma; 01-16-2003 at 01:18 PM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Essex, UK.
    Posts
    16,958
    Yeah, count me in, cheers!... I am in the same boat, a lot of people are getting worked up about some threads ive started recently but i dont see whats wrong with this, maybe i should post a funny animation or something, maybe people arent up to discussing something like this sensibly???
    Complaining is like a rocking chair, It's fun for a while but it doesn't get you anywhere.

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •