Web development

[nesir]

Whats everybody opinion on the state of web development , it seems most people are going to mobile development with swift and java , and that everybody who was a web developer and wants to stay one is not doing php and writing WordPress websites. I think the the automation process has knocked the socks off the bottom end of webdesign with many drag and drop website builders , how to we survive this without changing our career paths as right now im considering pushing seo and marketing more as web design is just not lucrative anymore.

[alptraum360]

I have always felt the term "Web Designer" was more what everyone doing those script kiddy websites fell under....people with very little talent can toss together a cut and paste web site and sell it to uninformed clients...same with WordPress sites.

However a true web developer actually knows how to code, <---- key word here is code..they don't need to rely on other peoples templates or scripts because they can develop their own solutions..that's what makes them stand out from the wanna be web designers. I think once you learn several languages so that your able to do both front end and back end development work on websites and web clients, you'll have no worries about the 'state of web development' you'll be so far out in front of your competition.

I'd suggest you not throw away your php, but also look into javascript/node/angular and if you really want to work on web type backends, asp.net and ruby/phython if you want to continue to horn your skills and stay in this buisness.

Whats everybody opinion on the state of web development , it seems most people are going to mobile development with swift and java , and that everybody who was a web developer and wants to stay one is not doing php and writing WordPress websites. I think the the automation process has knocked the socks off the bottom end of webdesign with many drag and drop website builders , how to we survive this without changing our career paths as right now im considering pushing seo and marketing more as web design is just not lucrative anymore.

[nesir]

Yeah i hear you , the more i go into php the more i love it , the growing complexity , multiple resolutions to a single problem and you deciding what is the best one. Since posting this i actually read an article on web development speaking specifically about how python was going to wipe out php. What made me realise many things is that this article was written in 2014 . Im not for or against any language , i believe most have their place and value. I failed to admit i do know some javascript ( very limited ) but it is on my list for sure to get more intimate with this language.

Im trying to get to that point in php where i can code as you put it. I can always manipulate templates to do what i need, so i was under the impression i understood the language , but i realised how much i am missing out on , why not write your own stuff ( surely that is the greatest reward of coding ) a nice program or script come to life created by yourself. So i sat there with a blank slate in-front of me , and realised i dont know half as much as i though.

I know guys who are really good front end developers. they studied and are always looking up things. A mix of aesthetics ,visual advertising type articles to those whom take it seriously ( they may not be coders as you put it ) but what they do also requires of talent and knowledge off consumers, trends, and actually alot of "psychological tricks " within their designs to enhance conversion rates

[nGAGE]

Coding everything from scratch isn't always the best solution, but you should definitely be able to. Keep in mind that sometimes it's more effective to use something that already exists and make it work for you, rather than writing everything from scratch. That said; I believe that it is vitally important to know not only how to code, but also to know the environment your coding for. "Back-end or front-end" require very different technologies and have very different purposes. They also require different skill-sets.
Of course there are still Full-stack developers as well, who do both, but usually those people have simply done both during their career and essentially know what they're doing.

Javascript is pretty much a must learn if you do anything that has to do with the UI parts of a website. As 'alptraum360' said; also have a look at node/angular. Perhaps even look at C#, which shouldn't be too big of a leap from php. Especially now that ASP.NET Core is starting to really become stronger and stronger.
I've done some projects in C# with ASP.NET Core for my backend and Angular for my frontend and must say, it was quite a lot of fun.

Don't give up though. If web-development interests you, it's a still big market with a very brought set of skills required for various forms of web-development. Most medium to large companies still need web-developers for their sites. Drag-and-drop sites are (for the most part) suited for individuals or small businesses that don't need much interaction on their site. It's only a very small portion of the market and they don't tend to require your services all that often.

[nesir]

Coding everything from scratch isn't always the best solution, but you should definitely be able to. Keep in mind that sometimes it's more effective to use something that already exists and make it work for you, rather than writing everything from scratch. That said; I believe that it is vitally important to know not only how to code, but also to know the environment your coding for. "Back-end or front-end" require very different technologies and have very different purposes. They also require different skill-sets.
Of course there are still Full-stack developers as well, who do both, but usually those people have simply done both during their career and essentially know what they're doing.

Javascript is pretty much a must learn if you do anything that has to do with the UI parts of a website. As 'alptraum360' said; also have a look at node/angular. Perhaps even look at C#, which shouldn't be too big of a leap from php. Especially now that ASP.NET Core is starting to really become stronger and stronger.
I've done some projects in C# with ASP.NET Core for my backend and Angular for my frontend and must say, it was quite a lot of fun.

Don't give up though. If web-development interests you, it's a still big market with a very brought set of skills required for various forms of web-development. Most medium to large companies still need web-developers for their sites. Drag-and-drop sites are (for the most part) suited for individuals or small businesses that don't need much interaction on their site. It's only a very small portion of the market and they don't tend to require your services all that often.

Well this is a forum and with all due respect i disagee with this. Learning to work with frameworks and so forth are the bonus, its magic code that just does things if you havent extensively worked from scratch to understand the concept of a language and how it functions you limit your ability to solve problems when the "magic" presents problems

[VelariaKnight]

I have to agree with nesir's remarks. Recently I was trying to adapt a VueJS tutorial so it would work with my Laravel (PHP) project and I struggled for hours and hours to resolve an obscure issue. I just happened to stumble across an article about completely unrelated to anything I had been searching before and found the solution.

As another example when the "magic" stops working. Laravel has something called route resources. Because I didn't understand the difference between route::resource() and route::get() (as an exampl) it took me some serious hair pulling and bashing of teeth (and StackOverflow) for me to see what the issue was. And the issue wasn't in my code. The issue was that route::resource() does stuff behind the scenes that the user would have to do if they were to use route::get() and want to get the same result.

[nGAGE]

@nesir @VelariaKnight I don't see how anything you guys said invalidates what I wrote.

PS: @nesir I never said, don't learn what code does.

[am385]

As far as web development goes, I am still really excited about a ASP.net core back end with a Blazor front end. I think Web Assembly is a really cool idea and hopefully leads to a nice structured performance based approach to front end development.

[nesir]

@ngage i apologise then as i misunderstood your comment .

Another quite interesting view i have recently come across, was with regards to what language to learn, obviously most people coders look at what languages are on the rise in terms of search. However the article that i read ( Was intended for developers looking to learn new languages. ) Said something along the lines ( lets take php as a example ). Python and java are on the rise in terms of searches you get old developers that have been doing php for ten odd years and something like python comes along they pick it up quickly and decide to go and look or a job regarding it, because it new and exciting. As a new guy however you now spend your time learning python and apply for jobs not knowing you are competing against many more experienced guys. Thing is when these senior developers move to their new job they leave a spot open in that field, say php and thats where you as a new guy will have to start on the job market. Until you get the experience to say heck im sick of this let me try a new tech. Most small to medium size businesses are not going to switch to newer tech overnight if they've been using it for ages. I think this applies for most languages people are so quick to say php is dying, they said that about cobol too yet today its still used and the guys using it pay well because there are so few developers compared to others that know it. I think however its fair to say start at the bottom ( php ) and work your way up get a rep and then youve earned the right to mess with newer tech and work in that field.