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Thread: Skill system

  1. #1
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    Skill system

    So while we wait for the next chapter, i was thinking about a skill system to implement, what ideas do you guys have for your own projects? Will you guys be rolling with the tradtion skill levels and talents or try some thing new, i was thinking of of using a combination of both, where the character level would only act as a multiplyer to a players skills and would not have a cap.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Suspect we are a ways off a skill system in the mmo. I'd be doing terrain, movement and item management before that
    Skills... ah that's where the fun starts. My game is pretty well designed in my Game Design Document.
    The thing is to be thinking of a new quirk, otherwise who would play it?

  3. #3
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    Yeah I agree, there is so much to be done I was messing around with terrains today in Maya and World Machine and using map data from USGS. I never realized how some parts of the USA are so remote and I thought some places in Scotland where remote.

  4. #4
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    I have some idea in mind about terrain system but really don't have enough time to start doing the r&d until i get my videos to some useful point, then i will sit and watch lee's system for god knows how many time it is now and see if i can implement what i have in mind, if that will be success, then get ready for a very nasty terrain system
    If you want to learn something, start teaching about it to others, nothing will help you more than that !

  5. #5
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    Feb 2009
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    AH! Terrain! There's something near and dear to my fingers.. I want to include cave systems in the game. but to do that with the random generation that lee implemented, you'd need some pretty crazy logic to be able to do it. with only a hieght field and regularly space vertex's you'd need to cut a hole in the terrain, surround it with assets to obscure the seam, and then do 2 height map patches (one for roof and the other for the ground) and then somehow stitch them together on the sides..

    The other alternative is to do voxel based maps (and no, not like minecraft blocks). You pretty much have 2 good versions that are decently documented. You could use Marching Cubes, or Dual Contouring. Marching Cubes is good, but to get some LOD, it really gets complicated. I still have yet to get anything working there. Dual Contouring comes with a ready made LOD system, since you're using the Dual of the contour, it doesn't matter if its regular or not. Problem with DC is that its pretty slow compared to MC. you have to do some set up and it creates a lot of overhead too.

    And then there's unity. giving unity a chunk of terrain with a lot of vertex data REALLY slows down the system. So your chunk size has to be crazy small. (in my tests, 16^3 seems to be ok, but anything larger just starts jittering).

    Anybody else jumping into anything like that? I'd LOVE to compare notes?

    and to the OP: I'm really looking into more of a use it to increase method. Instead of "Leveling" your character, you're skill would just slowly increase from 0 to cap, as you use the skill successfully. want to jump higher, then jump a lot. Of course, i'll have to make sure that people can't just leave a brick on the space bar to level up the jump over night.. but if we limit it to a ceratain increase over a peroid of time.. or maybe that you can only increase jump once, until something else has been increased.. at least then it would only be macro-ers that get free skill gains.. anyway.. thats my skills system thoughts..

    -Tuck

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    The main problem I see with MMO skill / level systems is that they only scale vertically. I guess that is a problem with MMOs in general. I personally see this as a huge issue in a sandbox style game that forces you to get to a cap and then do end game content. I want to create a system that is more horizontally scalable that would encourage adventure and exploration over grind to cap and then end game.

    EVE had an interesting approach with skill only approach with no levels. You would learn skills through research which would then unlock new skills, weapons, ships, faster learning of skills, and so forth.

    I am trying to come up with a system that is more like that.



    As far as the terrain discussion goes, I love the idea of a voxel environment that can change depending on what has happened. EQNext for example is supposed to have a Voxel environment that changes depending on recent battles that might have opened up caves below that has content that no one has seen. I don't know if a Voxel terrain is realistic for a single project though.

  7. #7
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    Feb 2009
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    I don't really think it's much harder than what we already have. I'm no pro, and even I've been able to implement voxels. I started with basic blocks, moved on to Marching Cubes, and now I'm into DUal Contouring. The hard part now is LOD, so I get decent view ranges. I can get 128^3 up in the screen space within 1 sec, which is tolerable. But to get realistic sizes I need LOD.

    If your really interested, I have a Unity package on github for use, if you'd like to take a look.

  8. #8
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    Aug 2010
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    I might take a look. What is the link? Have you tried to serialize the data to be stored on a server that is loaded to clients at runtime?

  9. #9
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    1- if you are going for voxels u may want to take a look into direct compute. Push heavy calculations on gpu and be happy
    2- what i have in mind is not actually voxels. But the lee's system with drastic change that would let u have caves to some extend. Problem is, in theory my thoughts would cause face stretching and we need edge looping and i don't know how to do this one yet
    3- there is a big difference between ability and skill systems. U guys are mixing them with each other. Bad idea
    If you want to learn something, start teaching about it to others, nothing will help you more than that !

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    How is running skills or abilities as a float value instead of a "level" a bad idea? If you think i'm running the wrong way, i'd love to hear? and all that sounded sarcastic although i don't mean it to be, i don't know any other way to type it out. read that as i'm smiling, and interested in discussion! lol

    As for the DC package: https://github.com/tuckbone/DualContouringCSharp

    You can just import that package into unity and run with it straight up, and you'll get a mesh.

    I haven't fine tuned anything at all. I literally went straight for a port of a working system into Unity. Since this package, I've optimized the code a bit more, and have moved both the random value generator and the mesh creation onto the GPU. Of course, since i want to be able to change the mesh dynamically, i had to read it back off the GPU to set up a unity mesh which is a HUGE slow down. That's really my only hiccup at this point. I figured if i used LOD, i could do twice the space for half the resolution and get greater view distances. That's what i've been working on the last few weeks actually.

    And no, i haven't serialized the data. The whole idea (of lees system and mine), is to use random noise to generate the data for the terrain, so that an artist doesn't have to sculpt the terrain, except in places that will be cities or things.. but the theory is sound for serialization. its just a grid of sbytes. so to serialize all id have to do is save the vertex location, and the value of the sbyte (along with texture info, which is just a block id which i store as a byte).

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