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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    120
    On the subject of guild wars I'm very iffy on the whole "risk setting" being overridden.

    Say for instance that you're in a Player Association (PA) and for some reason or another you're called away on RL stuff for, say a week. In the meantime your PA goes to war with another leaving your land completely open to attack and you're not there to do anything about it. When you come back at the end of the week you discover that your land has been taken by the other PA, yet you had no say in whether to go to war or not, and you are now being punished - not for deciding to go to war, but simply for being in a PA.

    The argument about "getting out of the kitchen" has no validity if you're not there to see what's happening, and make a decision based on that.

    Same situation could apply if you're a European (like me, go figure) playing on a US server. While you're sleeping during US prime time, your PA goes to war and when you wake up and come back in you discover that your land has been ransacked.

    I would be severely pissed, not only at my PA for going to war without having a vote beforehand, but also at the developers (you) for making it so this could happen.

    You *cannot* force pvp on the players - many will probably revel in it, some will not, but either way they need to have the choice - no matter if they're in a PA or not.
    Last edited by mikesdk; 05-15-2011 at 06:13 AM. Reason: broke up walls of text for readability

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    47
    Mike, I am not sure I understand your problem. Under the proposed system, if you do not wish to PvP, then set you risk level to low. It is not a have your cake and eat it system, nor should it be.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,529
    Yes, Mikesdk, you hit the nail on the head. That is just the BIG issue that I had mentioned. I have many thoughts about it that I will post later. There are many things that need to be considered with such a system, and how to implement it in a way that leaves guilds, and player own land, a realistic endeavor for players to want to spend there time on. I love the idea of land being taken and buildings destroyed as spoils of war, but they way the round table was talking about it, in that first meeting, leaves more holes in the system than there is in the total size of its worth.

    I will enjoy working with the group to try and plug those holes, as I believe it to be possible given enough flexibility and alterations on the idea as presented thus far.



    Robert bos,

    The issues is that they stated that if you were in a guild and your guild went to war, any land that you hold would be subject to concern, by the opposing guild, no matter what your risk level was set.


    The issues;

    So, the issues are that, sense players don't actually live in that game world, they will often not be there in order to respond to an attack. Sense many players don't play, every day, many players will not even know that they are in a war, and will not have the changes of either leaving the guild, or coming to the rescue and defense of their land. Many players will be at the blind mercy of their guilds decisions.

    Think of the weekend only players. Some players may spend most of their weekend playing the game, but have no time during the work week to play. For many this will mean that they simply can not afford to trust a guild, and will have to go without. I would rather we figure out a system that will let, weekend player be in a guild, and sill have it worth while for them to own land.

    I will share more thoughts and ideas I have on this later. Right now I have some ideas and their counter arguments in my head that I am working through. I am planing to write out both the ups and downs of my ideas and see what other people will think up to improve upon them.

    I am not sure what the best solution is right now. But I have some ideas that we should be considering. I think it is the kind of thing that needs a lot of heads on it to come up with the best solution. I also think this may be the kind of thing with no perfect solution, but instead we must find the best over all compromise.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    47
    Indeed they did and that is as it should be, IMO.

    If you are worried about losing your stuff, do not enable PvP, or join a guild that accepts war declarations. From what was discussed, it sounds like a war must be mutually accepted by both sides.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    120
    "do not enable PvP" That is exactly what I'm talking about! A player should have the choice whether or not to enable PvP regardless if they're in a guild or not. It should not be forced down their throat just because they choose to be part of a guild. A mechanic such as this would force people who don't want to PvP to stay unguilded for fear that their guild decides to go to war without their knowledge or consent.

    And who decides if a war is mutually accepted? The guild leaders? A majority vote? Again, if for whatever reason you're not online to take part in such a decision it is being forced down on you. Now you're being punished for being in a guild - not because you made a conscious decision to PvP.
    Last edited by mikesdk; 05-15-2011 at 04:47 PM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesdk View Post
    "do not enable PvP" That is exactly what I'm talking about! A player should have the choice whether or not to enable PvP regardless if they're in a guild or not. It should not be forced down their throat just because they choose to be part of a guild. A mechanic such as this would force people who don't want to PvP to stay unguilded for fear that their guild decides to go to war without their knowledge or consent.

    And who decides if a war is mutually accepted? The guild leaders? A majority vote? Again, if for whatever reason you're not online to take part in such a decision it is being forced down on you. Now you're being punished for being in a guild - not because you made a conscious decision to PvP.
    As the mechanics are only in the concept phase, I have no idea how a war will be accepted.

    The choise to PvP is the players, based on the fact that the idea is to allow the player to determine whether or not to participate.

    In my view, if you join a guild that accepts or decalres wars, or flag yourself as a PvP target, then you must eat the entire pie. So again, this is completely up to the player as to whether or not he/she is willing to take such risk, in game.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by robert bos View Post
    if you join a guild that accepts or decalres wars, or flag yourself as a PvP target, then you must eat the entire pie. So again, this is completely up to the player as to whether or not he/she is willing to take such risk, in game.
    How do you know one hundred percent that the guild you joined will never declare a war? The only safe way would be to never join a guild at all, in the current concept. Or what if your guild stated that they would only war on weekends, and then changed there minds at some point without telling you. Or maybe they had a holiday where there was no work or school on Friday, in their country, and so they just thought of their Friday off as the weekend and so they had a war on Friday, and you didn't get on until the night or until Saturday, and your stuff was just gone.

    I don't understand why you think that your guild would never do anything unexpected.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    861
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfknightly View Post
    How do you know one hundred percent that the guild you joined will never declare a war? The only safe way would be to never join a guild at all, in the current concept.
    That isn't entirely true. It would be a trivial matter to code an option that would allow the player's character to automatically drop the guild in the event of a war declaration thus preserving the player's intent to play solely as PVE and not risk their properties. We want the player to be force to make hard decisions that effect their game play. What are they willing to risk in order to make gains? These are concepts that don't exist in current games, unless you count a couple of gold for a repair bill for raiding high risk?

    No one is saying if a player joins a guild they will lose everything, it will be a risk though unless they join a guild that has declared itself as PVE only. There are so many possibilities on how this may be accomplished but since we are just starting to explore this we'll just have to see how it turns out.

    In short we want to give players a lot of options on how they play but we also want to force them to choose a play style and have that play style affect pretty much every aspect of their gaming experience. Yes we should allow a path that someone who wants to play it safe and never take risks to follow but that person should not be entitled to the same rewards that someone who is willing to risk all should.
    Last edited by chronos78; 05-16-2011 at 09:35 AM.
    “little expense has been spared to give the impression that no expense has been spared.” - Douglas Adams

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    120
    The moment you start forcing players into a particular way of doing things you're taking away their ability to choose how they wish to play. In essence they're no longer playing their game, but yours. I agree there should be consequences for choosing the PvP route, but I would want to make that choice myself, not have it forced on me if my guild should suddenly desire to engage in a guild war.

    One way to do this as I see it - the moment a guild war (or any other PvP oriented actions) is declared your character should have a pop-up displayed telling you it is taking place, and ask whether or not you wish to participate. eg.

    "
    Your guild has initiated hostilities with X-guild. Will you support their cause?
    Warning! You will be vulnerable to attack from the opposing guild, any land you
    own may be captured, and you may aid your guild in attacking opposing guild
    members and capturing their land. Do you wish to participate?

    YES/NO
    "

    Unless you click yes your land would not be open to hostile actions, you would not be able to participate in any PvP actions - and any guild bonuses you had would be suspended until the war was resolved or you decided to join in. There would have to be a significant amount of time between flagging for PvP and unflagging so you couldn't just flip it off if you were about to get attacked. In Star Wars Galaxies the process of switching between PvP enabled and not takes about 5 minutes - during which you can still be attacked. It should probably be longer - I'm thinking an hour or more (24 hours?) in this MMO.

    If the character was offline the pop-up would be the first to greet them when they log in. This would solve the issue of having a player who is offline for whatever reason (RL or connection issues, sleeping if in another time zone, etc..) logging in and risk finding their lands had been captured because their guild had engaged in PvP in the meantime.

    - Mike

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    47
    Chronos,

    Agreed, one thousand percent!

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