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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    22
    Hi Nezach,
    I wonder if you could comment on another problem:
    Imagine the "editable poly object 0" composed of three elements. This object can be symmetrized using the Symmetry Modifier.

    One of the elements ( lets call it element 1 ) of the "editable poly object 0" had its own plane of symmetry but, due to modeling errors, this element was no longer fully symmetrical w/r to this plane.

    I isolated visually element 1 by hiding everything else, deleted the half of it and repaired/reshaped the remaining half.

    Then, I have applied the Symmetry Modifier to the reshaped half of the element 1 and got the exactly symmetrical entity.
    I hoped that after unhiding everything and applying the Symmetry Modifier again to the "editable poly object 0", the entire "thing" will be perfect.

    This did not work.

    When I applied the Symmetry Modifier to the "editable poly object 0", the resultant "thing" was seriously messed up. There were two complete elements 1 and they were positioned correctly but the rest was a very strange mixture of the remaining elements.

    I played with the Symmetry Modifier mirror setup for a while but this only made everything worse.

    How to deal with the problems like that?

    Perhaps the element 1 cannot be modified by using the Symmetry Modifier while it belongs to the "editable poly object 0" that will be symmetrized a moment later?

    Perhaps I have to detach the element 1 first , name it as another object, select this object only, correct it and symmetrize it using the Symmetry Modifier, attach it again to the "editable poly object 0" and then use the Symmetry Modifier on the "editable poly object 0"?

    I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

    Thanks,
    Matt

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    ubiquitous
    Posts
    794
    Yes, you got it. Detach the element you need to resym, add the symmetry modifier on it specifically, collapse, then reattach.

    Unlike hiding objects, hiding subobjects via editable poly just prevents them from appearing in the viewport. Modifiers will still be working on them, "hidden" subobjects will still appear in a render, etc.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    22
    Hi Nezach,

    Today's subject: animating the poly sub-objects.

    I have one large object ( scene 1 ) that is composed of many elements. They are alll attached together and constitute 1/2 of the model ( scene 1, visible in the Poly Edit Mode ).
    When the Symmetry Modifier is used on scene 1, the entire model is created.

    I would like to animate five elements constituting one functional component of the large object ( scene 1).
    Specifically, I would like the animation to rotate these five elements about the pivot point located by me.

    I can locate the pivot point where I want it but, when the animation sequence is played, the five elements ( selected previously in the poly edit mode ) rotate separately about their own geometric centers and the pivot is ignored.

    How to force these elements to rotate in animation together and about the pivot point I have specified?

    I feel the problem has to do with coordinate system selection for the pivot specified by me. I have tried "view" and "local" but something was still wrong.

    Thank you,
    Matt

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    In space
    Posts
    5,428
    I would seriously consider detaching those elements into their own objects. This allows you to either group them together, reattach only the moving parts as a single object of their own, or parent them to something like a Point Helper, which would then serve as your pivot.

    I'm not saying you can't animate sub-objects (you can try the XForm modifier) but I think generally you'll have a much easier time with animatable parts being separated.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    22
    Zak,
    I have detached these elements before I wrote my previous message, named them ( object 2 ) and tried to use pivot to create animation by rotating.
    The reason I prefer pivot is simple: I know something about pivots but nothing about parenting, point helpers and XForm modifier.

    Unfortunately the newly created detached object 2 did not rotate at all.
    It was the pivot triad that rotated when I dragged the rotate symbol ring with the cursor.

    I would be grateful for explanation and suggestions what to do next.
    Thank you,
    Matt

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    In space
    Posts
    5,428
    No sweat.

    Let's keep this simple. I'd recommend the point helper approach, so let's talk about that.

    First, obviously, you need to create a point helper. These can be created from the Command Panel under Create > Helpers. Use the tooltips to help if you need to.

    A point helper just looks like 3 intersecting lines, all pointing down the primary axes. You'll want to position this point helper at the pivot point of your rotation, meaning the point around which you want your objects to rotate.

    Next, select all of your detached objects. If there are several of them, simply hit Ctrl and click on each one. Once they are selected, click the Link tool in the upper left of the toolbar. You should see some dashed "rubber band lines" come out of your selected objects. You need to click on your point helper. If for some reason you can't click on it (say, if it's buried in another object) simply hit H to bring up a list of all the objects in your scene and choose it from that list.

    Once you've done that, all of your objects are linked (parented) to your point helper. If you move, rotate, or scale the point helper, all of those objects will move with it.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    22
    Hi Zak,
    There is another twist to this.
    I managed to apply the rotational animation to five detached elements constituting one object ( object 2 ).
    Before detachment object 2 and large object ( scene 1 ) constituted one entity and, when the Symmetry Modifier was used, scene 1 was properly mirrored.
    Now, scene 1 is mirrored without object 2 that is not "seen" by the Symmetry Modifier applied only to scene 1.

    I had to use a separate Symmetry Modifier on object 2 to see the object 2 mirrored when the Symmetry Modifier is applied to scene 1.

    Consequently, in the Poly Edit Mode of scene 1 I see: two objects 2 and the scene 1 instead of one object 2 and scene 1.

    I cannot attach object 2 to scene 1 to create proper half of the model because I am loosing the animation applied to object 2.

    Any suggestions what to do with this?

    In the end I must attach object 2 to scene 1 for texturing.

    Thanks,
    M

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    In space
    Posts
    5,428
    I'm not sure what attaching these objects has to do with texturing. Your description is very confusing, however, and I'm not sure where to go from here.

    You will not be able to reattach these objects and retain your animation. The animation is applied to the objects themselves, and when you attach, you create a brand new object.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    22
    Zak,
    I am building an airplane in 3ds max.
    It has retractable landing gear that must be animated.
    The only problem is how to maintain this animation when all sub-scenes/objects are attached together for texture application.

    Texture must be applied to one main object only therefore the landing gear must be attached to the main scene.

    After the texture is applied, the model will be broken again into sub-objects. Perhaps I will be able to re-animate the landing gear again.

    Thank you for your comments and suggestions but the only way for me to really understand the extremely convoluted syntaxes used by 3ds max is to experiment.

    Later,
    M

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    In space
    Posts
    5,428
    Ah, I see. If you're talking about the UVW layout process, yes, it can sometimes be helpful if your objects are attached. However, for what it's worth, you're doing things in the most difficult order I can imagine.

    Consider this:

    1. Model out your object.
    2. Perform any cleanup operations (Collapsing the stack, renaming, checking to make sure all normals are facing outward, look for duplicate/isolated vertices)
    3. Create your UVW layout
    4. Create and apply your texture and materials.
    5 Animate

    Still, all hope isn't lost. If you're planning on making all the textures for the entire airplane from one file (easily possible, but perhaps not advisable if you can avoid it), then you can simply "mark off" a quadrant of the 0-1 UVW square and save it for the landing gear.

    Best case, as far as I'm concerned, would be to see about doing the landing gear on a separate texture altogether if possible. This means you don't need to worry about attachment or overlapping UVs. You'll have a separate texture on the gear anyway.

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