Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    near Orlando, Fl
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Dariyo View Post
    seriously, just walking around for minutes is no fun at all.
    Sure, looking around the world is for some people cool, but why not just make some waypoints where you can travel to if you detected them?
    From everywhere, if out of fight. And it would not need some magic or what ever. Your character just walk the way he already "know".
    A game should make fun, and not a waste of time.

    Greetings
    Scott Rogers, in his book Level Up says "walking is not gameplay". So yes I agree with you that walking is not fun. You shouldn't have a character walking for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes or more with nothing to do. However since this will not be a SOE game I don't think that is a problem. There has to be some walking. All games have walking. It's the part about having something to do on the way that needs to be addressed. You really can't have people warping to wherever they want in the game. When I mentioned portals and teleporters I was also like many of you, referring to a similar system of WoW's flightpaths and like Toastage said, it should just be a bit faster to cut out wasted time. I don't think you should be able to make a portal anywhere you are to get to any location in the world. Maybe certain classes can portal themselves back to a town, much like Mages in WoW can do. But it should be predetermined areas that link to other predetermined areas to travel to. As for the walk across the zone to get to the town so you can travel? It won't be a boring walk as there would be mobs to impede your progress on the way or items to collect (mining, skinning, herbalism).
    The odds of hitting your target increase significantly when you aim at it.
    Check out my iOS games released in the App Store!
    Tricky Treasure Fall
    Tap 'n' Scrap
    UFO Escape From Earth

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Mesa, Arizona
    Posts
    421
    Besides making the world feel incredibly small I have other issues with instant travel.

    It is an area where I think gamers have no idea what's good for them or the game. It does sound simple and nice to say, 'Instant travel lets me get to the fun parts faster.' What fun parts are you talking about? A dozen more collect 20 quests? Running the same dungeon for the 10th time today? Travel time is the "palette cleanser" of MMOs. Without it players would realize how simple and repetitive most, if not all, tasks in an MMO are. Travel time lets the brain relax so that it can get excited about these again.

    Instant travel also runs the risk of destroying emergent gameplay. I believe emergent gameplay is one of the biggest hooks with MMOs but also very underdeveloped in most. What I mean by emergent gameplay is the moments that make players say, "That doesn't normally happen! But it's awesome!" Like finding a huge, super strong beast in the middle of the forest where there usually isn't one. You happen across it just as a group of guys are struggling to take it down so you decide to help. After a tough battle you are all rewarded with sweet lutes.

    That is far more engaging to the player that some guy saying, "I'll give you some gold if you go kill this huge, super strong beast in the forest." Travelling is where emergent gameplay shines. Look at Rockstar's or Bethesda's open world games for examples of that. I try to force myself to not use Fast Travel in Fallout 3/NV for the reason that the best gameplay is usually the stuff I find travelling from objective A to objective B.
    "You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing."

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalDemigod View Post
    Scott Rogers, in his book Level Up says "walking is not gameplay". So yes I agree with you that walking is not fun. You shouldn't have a character walking for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes or more with nothing to do. However since this will not be a SOE game I don't think that is a problem. There has to be some walking. All games have walking. It's the part about having something to do on the way that needs to be addressed. You really can't have people warping to wherever they want in the game. When I mentioned portals and teleporters I was also like many of you, referring to a similar system of WoW's flightpaths and like Toastage said, it should just be a bit faster to cut out wasted time. I don't think you should be able to make a portal anywhere you are to get to any location in the world. Maybe certain classes can portal themselves back to a town, much like Mages in WoW can do. But it should be predetermined areas that link to other predetermined areas to travel to. As for the walk across the zone to get to the town so you can travel? It won't be a boring walk as there would be mobs to impede your progress on the way or items to collect (mining, skinning, herbalism).
    Yea, sure not really everywhere. With waypoints i thought of just towns or dungeons maybe. There would be enough walking to certain areas outside of a town/dungeon.
    And yes you're right, its not a complex commercial game. But as far as i can think its not such a huge effort to implement such a function. It's somehow just like loggin in, just other coordinates.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    258
    Again...why punish the user with that stupid waste of time in flight...I dont want to have to eat a sandwich and make a coffee well my friends wait on the other side of the world for me to get there..I think that is a dumb design decision and im not afraid to put that in print.

    I know for one I will be implementing InstaTravel, cause the majority of Casual players want to get in and out quick.

    I did note about the comment of abusing such a system, yes players could flash in and out of a zone, but to correct that, a timer/cooldown could be placed on the ability...much like the deathpad's in Age of Conan, multiple instances within the game system, just like in guild wars....im all about choice and I mean my 2 cents is definitely not something you have to put into your own MMO, im just throwing it out there..I will be totally adding convenience into my version though, I hate walking...im more like a Duke nukem kick ass and take names type guy i dont wanna have to wait an hour to do it though.

    As far as random spawning mobs, that's possible without forcing users to walk half way across your world to encounter these beasts, they are merely porting/summoning to where their friends are..IE: the in group summon ability just means you can drag all your friends to wherever the group leader is...put it on a cooldown if u fear it'll be abused, but when all 5 or 6 of you are online and decide your gonna farm rock elementals in a certain spot...you can just be summoned there...so your looking at a loading screen for what 2-3 minutes tops...compared to what in WOW might be a 20-30 minute ride/walk/teleport combination.

    The comments about Instatravel making the world look small, I disagree with, depending how much content you develope and intend to have within you game (not talking our class mmo, but the one you might develope afterwards) is what the player see's and gets a feel of, if it takes 20 minutes to walk across your entire world that might not be a bad thing, instead of 6 hours...its what you have for options for the players to do well they are in these zones.

    My entire game could be comprised of for example 5 zones...but within those zones perhaps I create 1000 quests, and perhaps I create instances or phase areas, so that im separating my players as they run threw what sounds like a limited and very small world, now lets say I get even more creative after this point and say OMG phasing is awesome I can essentially put layers and more layers overtop of the same 5 zones..creating what could feel like an almost never ending world, as the quest chain keeps progressing, players could be pushed to higher phasing levels within your world. (know I know you may say..but what if my friends are at different phases and such, well one possible solution might be that players in a party only enter the group leaders phase, thus all being able to help each other and such) sorry this sort of went off on its own tangent there..but im just trying to stress that there are a LOT of great ways to make your world seem huge, even if it isn't.

    I STILL don't buy the argument that players must be forced to walk miles and miles to believe the world is awesome. Again this is just my 2 cents guys.
    Last edited by alptraum360; 02-09-2011 at 12:07 PM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    near Orlando, Fl
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Overmind1984 View Post
    Besides making the world feel incredibly small I have other issues with instant travel.

    It is an area where I think gamers have no idea what's good for them or the game. It does sound simple and nice to say, 'Instant travel lets me get to the fun parts faster.' What fun parts are you talking about? A dozen more collect 20 quests? Running the same dungeon for the 10th time today? Travel time is the "palette cleanser" of MMOs. Without it players would realize how simple and repetitive most, if not all, tasks in an MMO are. Travel time lets the brain relax so that it can get excited about these again.

    Instant travel also runs the risk of destroying emergent gameplay. I believe emergent gameplay is one of the biggest hooks with MMOs but also very underdeveloped in most. What I mean by emergent gameplay is the moments that make players say, "That doesn't normally happen! But it's awesome!" Like finding a huge, super strong beast in the middle of the forest where there usually isn't one. You happen across it just as a group of guys are struggling to take it down so you decide to help. After a tough battle you are all rewarded with sweet lutes.

    That is far more engaging to the player that some guy saying, "I'll give you some gold if you go kill this huge, super strong beast in the forest." Travelling is where emergent gameplay shines. Look at Rockstar's or Bethesda's open world games for examples of that. I try to force myself to not use Fast Travel in Fallout 3/NV for the reason that the best gameplay is usually the stuff I find travelling from objective A to objective B.
    I agree with everything you're saying.

    So I think what we have here are two different types of travel that people are concerned about:

    1. Some are concerned with wasting time running from say, the middle of a forest a few miles outside of town to the town itself.

    2. Some are concerned with traveling long distances say, from continent to continent and that taking too long

    Personally, #1 is not an issue. With WoW as the example, running across a zone to the city is an insignificant amount of time 'wasted'.

    #2, I get that traveling from one continent to another is supposed to take time because there are great distances involved. At least in WoW you get the great scenery instead of a loading screen. Also how could it be any faster in that game without breaking the reality of the game? You're flying on a winged creature. It can't fly any faster. But overall yes I am one of those people that would like traveling great distances from planet to planet to not eat up 30 minutes of my life. In a sci fi setting at least there is the option to cut out some time there and streamline it while also balancing the fact that you don't want players instantly jumping from planet to planet constantly. It may be just a loading screen and then you're on a different planet or maybe we'll end up with a 10 minute animation. But I think that something less than 15 minutes would be more reasonable. This is just from the standpoint of someone that's busy. It sucks when you have 2 hours to game and spend an hour of it in a traveling system.
    The odds of hitting your target increase significantly when you aim at it.
    Check out my iOS games released in the App Store!
    Tricky Treasure Fall
    Tap 'n' Scrap
    UFO Escape From Earth

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    84
    I've always like the system that Pirates Online and Guild Wars used - where you could insta travel to any town/outpost/etc once you have visited them the hard way once. there is a huge difference between the two systems. non insta travel ends in everyone waiting 30 min to get together in one location to party up and do something, where as the insta travel one takes just a few minutes and is a more enjoyable experience.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    123
    I'm not saying it's a good thing, but enforced travel time has two functions that I'm aware of, and at probably more.

    It's non-interactive time. As far as the server is concerned, the players travelling are a very light draw on server resources compared to someone in heavy combat rolling his face across his hotkeys to unleash massive destruction, drawing aggro from a dozen NPCs, and taking damage. If at any one time 1% of the player base is in noninteractive travel that's nearly 1% less communication the server is doing.

    It gives a sense of scale for the world. A loading screen between zones breaks immersion. You know how far away Orgrimmar is from Thunder Bluff because you can watch the entire trip from the air. In Warhammer Online, though, you have no idea how far apart the zones are. Little zones with loading breaks break the world up into little chunks.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    214
    I think one thing we might be forgetting about here is exploration. By making player walk around it encourages them to explore and find things out on there own. I, like everybody else, hate wasting time traveling but I think it’s important to have in the beginning at least. That being said there’s no reason we can’t do something similar to EverQuest 2, as they launched expansions they have included more portals to travel though the lesser used areas and quickly reach the new areas of the game.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lerich View Post
    I think one thing we might be forgetting about here is exploration. By making player walk around it encourages them to explore and find things out on there own.
    I think there are enough options to make exploration for the players interesting, like achievements, gathering or some collectable things. But those who dont want such things can just use the instant travel system.

    And, in my opinion, everyone should have a chance to do what they feel like is fun. If you want to explore, go ahead. If you want to search for random spawning Mobs, go ahead. If you just want to play instead of walking around, go ahead. Also i think there are enough options to implement things that make it profitable for people who like exploration, looking for random mobs or even some rare materials for a nice chair for your house!

    But thats just theory. Dont think that this MMO class should go into such an extreme detail to make everything perfect.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •