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  1. #1
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    Question Should Elythians be attractive?

    By that I mean to ask, should Elythians be able to look attractive to the player, and if so, to what degree. Like should Elythian females have human women like breast? Should we find some of their faces attractive, and if not, do people think that will impact whether a lot of players will want to be one or not? I think this is more of an issue with Elythian women, as far as them looking, in their own way, either cute or sexy. But even for male Elythain, people will need to be able to relate to them.


    Now one might argue that in wow people liked to play on the hoard side, and they have a bunch of ugly creators, like orc's or goblins that you could be. But they were on the “bad” side and it is fun to be a ugly scary, looking bad monster guy sometimes. Also, they are made kind of cute ugly looking.

    So I guess what I am asking is, do we want a scary looking race, as one of our two races, if it is not going to be a “evil” race? I really don't know what I feel about this question. But it is mostly a psychology question. I think these things have an affect on people, I just don't know to what degree. It is something I thought about, and feel like it needs to be brought up and discussed. Assuming we care how many people want to be Elythian's.

    Also, maybe it isn't even a bad thing to have less players be Elythian's, as it doesn't seem like we are putting all Elythain's against all humans, so the balance may not be and issue. Although we may later want to have an event that puts humans and Elythain's at each others throats.

    So what do you guys think about that? Is this even an issue?

  2. #2
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    I'd say that, without knowing exactly how elythian breeding and child rearing works, human like breasts on female elythians are not a necessity, so long as there is some other distinguishing feature that let's people know at a glance the gender of the elythian. That being said, the idea of putting breasts on elythians to make them look female does make sense since most players approaching the game, given the bipedal human-like nature of the elythians, would expect there to be breasts. I think Zak mentioned the idea of the elongated head being shorter for women, or something similar would work just as well (mabey slightly different skin pigmentation or other exagerated features).

    As for the visual impact of the elythians, I think that they should have human like qualities like cheekbones and eyebrows, not necessarially any more handsome or ugly than any regular human being should be. I think a player's ability to interact and develop meaningful relationships with in game characters (either their own character or other characters in the game, npc or player controlled) depends at least in part with the facial features of the creature in question, since it's very hard to relate to creatures with very few recognisable facial expressions. Still, Mass Effect is a good example of non-human facial features done correctly, as for the most part the creatures reacted and expressed emotions that I as a player could understand and relate to.

    I'm not a fan of the idea of elythians looking evil as a whole race, nexians on the other hand should have glowing green orbs and horrid withered faces showing the torment and anguish they've unleashed upon their own immortal bodies in pursuit of the dark powers Oh and for player split between the races, I'd hope that it would be relatively even, so long as gameplay is balanced well enough to prevent any one particular race+skill+item combo being too tempting, requiring everyone to play as either one race or another.
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  3. #3
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    Rule 34. That's more or less all I have to say on the matter.

  4. #4
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    Any creature can look beautiful and graceful; and they can look down right fugly, beaten down with a fugly stick. Look at stray dogs with matted hair, once they are cleaned up and have their fur combed through they look pretty good. Also, some of the most vicious creatures on earth are human females that use their feminine charm. Choosing to create the Elythians with larger heads, or different joint structure does not limit one to creating a beautiful species. In all of the nature around us here on earth there is beauty; while I love the evergreen forests of the NW, some people love the desert.

    So I guess that my opinion is that yes the Elythians should look attractive, but that beauty can come in many forms.

  5. #5
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    Very good response there KGS

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO_chrisjm View Post
    Rule 34. That's more or less all I have to say on the matter.

    I have no idea what that means.


    Yeah, that is a good point KGS. You know, I was looking again at the concept art for the Elythains, and I was surprised to find them kind of good looking. They look cooler then I remember them looking. I was thinking about their noses a lot when I started this thread. It always looked like they had their nose sawed off to me, and I felt that could be an issue, but when I looked at them again it didn't bother me. I guess I got used to the idea.

    Still I think it is a good question to think and talk about.

    Also, I was not worried that we would not be able to tell the males from the females. I was asking if they should resemble human females. Do you think that players would want them to have features like breast and large hips? Most animals seem to have females be smaller than the males, but there are cases where the opposite is true, like the black widow spider.

    I don't know, would people find something like that interesting, if the female were twice as big as the males, and that was how you told them apart mainly? Or would people feel disappointed by that because they were TOO different than us, and not easy to relate to?

    I do think, however, that the most important thing, is that their faces can show human emotion, in their expressions.

    Thanks for sharing your ideas in this thread.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfknightly View Post
    Do you think that players would want them to have features like breast and large hips?
    Hmmm, do gamers want things with breasts on them? I think.... yes.

    As for whether they should have such features, I think it could go either way, since we don't know much about them in general anyways. I think that if some foreign creature is supposed to be relatable, especially in a video game, it should be as human-like as possible. As an MMO though, being relatable isn't a huge deal for NPCs, since they generally play a fairly insignificant role in terms of how much they affect a player.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krynn72 View Post
    As an MMO though, being relatable isn't a huge deal for NPCs, since they generally play a fairly insignificant role in terms of how much they affect a player.
    Boy I really hope that isn't the case with our game. I hope we have some more interesting NPCs than that in are world. Not all, but some.


    They are something we are making up, the Elythains. So we don't need to be finding things out about them, we just need to make things up about them. But I think we need to do more than just think about what is different and, perhaps, cool, but also think of what the players relationship with them will be. It seems to me that players take on a special relationship with the characters that they choose to play as, that is different than their relationship with all other character's in the game.

    I know that game companies spend a lot of time and money trying to get the right look for their main characters. It seems to me that there is a good reason for that.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfknightly View Post
    I have no idea what that means.
    Reference to the rules of the internet: Rule 36 is "If it exists, there is porn of it. No exceptions." basically meaning that people can find ANYTHING attractive.

    I also think this topic is somewhat way ahead of the development curve to really be that ... well ... useful. It all depends on exactly how Elythians are implemented and how we want the players to view them, playable or not.

    Also we might as well have the topic "Should Humans be attractive?"

    That said it is worth looking into how we want to handle differing appearance for gender regarding the Elythians.

  10. #10
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    NATO;

    I am trying to comprehend why you think this topic is way ahead of the development curve, and therefor not useful. That seems rather odd to me, as we already have a bunch of concept art for the Elythians, and have even fine tuned their look down pretty specifically. If anything I believe this topic to have been brought up, noticeably late into the process. It would seem to me that it would have been best to discuss this kind of thing, as well as others, before we started to do concept art at all.

    Now, you may argue that it is a bit early to start the concept art, but once you have started it, let alone gotten this far, do you really think it shouldn't be discussed?

    I honestly don't know if it is important that our aliens can be attractive or not. Maybe it is enough for players to think they look neat. But I see no harm in asking the question. I simply thought of a question that nobody seemed to me asking, so I brought it up. I am just trying to participate in the class, and wanted to hear what others thought about it.

    Even if it is “too early” to bring this, or any other, topic up, well what does it hurt? At least it gets people thinking about a given topic. It is not like it can't be revisited at a later point.

    At what point do you envision that it will be the correct time for this topic?

    I wouldn't want to wait for us to be ready to add the models in, as we would then have to stop everything and wait for the concept art to be done. It seems to me the sooner you can get on the concept art the better, so that you will be all ready when it is time to model them. There is also a CRAZY amount of concept art that we will still have to do. It is going to take a really long time to do everything.


    I like this sentence that you wrote.

    “It all depends on exactly how Elythians are implemented and how we want the players to view them, playable or not.”

    More than just the (attractiveness) question, I am trying to say that I think we should think about the WHY in how we want them to look. It felt to me like we just wanted to come up with something that looked cool and different, and that was that. Maybe that is alright. I also don't know if there was more to the discussion about it that I missed. I just felt like maybe we should take some time and discuss how we what the players to feel about them, and how is their look going to effect that feeling.


    If you ask the question, “should Humans Be Attractive?” then I would answer, well yes, they should be able to be attractive. We should not have a MMO game, where everybody has to pick an unattractive person to play.

    Also, my real question was not, should all Elythains be attractive. It was should they be able, to be attractive. By that I mean to have models that you could create that a player could at least find somewhat attractive, by human standards, if still odd. I did not mean in the way you find a puppy attractive.

    I don't know about you, but I found the female alien in Avatar attractive in the human way, if still really odd. But “the odd” was more exotic than anything else.


    As far as your “Rule 36” goes, I was talking about a more mainstream consensus for what is considered attractive, and not the bazaar fetish of a small minority of people.


    It might not be as important an issue in the end, because both human players, and Elythains can group together. So, it is not like you have to decide if you want to be on the ugly character's side, or to go human and have a choice if you want to be “ugly” or not.

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