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Thread: C++ or C#/XNA?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Alabama USA
    Quote Originally Posted by hostod View Post
    Try to understand my option, your advise is only a slightly different shade of mine. There is also nothing wrong with Big-Chuck approach from my understanding of it. I'm no mind reader but to me his post reads "Go with the C#/XNA dvds and be confident that it's the right choice". The C# XNA dvds are a introduction to programming, far extentending the scoop of use in a single language. A fine choice for a future programmer to get going with (in my n00bish option).
    Actually our advice is quite different. Your approach is "Go this way because I said so from personal experience." which is the same thing that Big-Chuck did. My approach is to ask indepth questions about himself and what he wants to do, debate it over in his head, and find the right match.

    Telling someone to pick something without getting any extra ideas of where the person is mentally and where he wants to go is a very poor way of giving advice. That's like a Systems Analyst telling a company what computer equipment and software a company needs without actually knowing what the company does or wants to do.

    Picture this:

    Children's Hospital talking to systems analyst: Yes, we'd like to upgrade our current systems to be a little more responsive and future proof.

    Systems analyst: Excellent, well to start off we'll get everyone running a console based linux distro. You're also going to need software so that each user can compile their own kernel just in case something arises. Being a medical facility I'm sure you're going to need a full library on Taxes and such, and etc.

    That seems quite rediculous and it should. From what it seems you're saying, it's best to just jump to a conslusion without gathering as much information on WHAT is needed by the user and WHAT the intent of the user will be. To accurately suggest any method whether it be from a systems analyst or someone who's suggesting a language, you need MUCH more background information to help him chose the right fit for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by hostod View Post
    I think your advise is over thinking what a first time programmer should be worried about. I know before I started the the XNA dvds I would switch languages all the time in fear I had made the wrong choice. Now I understand the language wasn't as important as my skills using it. True down the road I will learn the ins and outs of more languages like C++ and Lisp. They are also great languages and possible better choices for some applications. In learning them I'm also sure I will improve my skill in using C# as well. For now I'm having a good time using C#/XNA and just making some games.
    If you explicitly read his post, he says he's a "kinda new coder". This could mean anything since it's is totally subjectional to HIS opinion of "kinda new". He could have been programming in Cobol for a year or two and be modest and say that's "kinda new". Or he could only have done it for a few months. Again, more information on how much programming he's done and what language would be great in helping assist him in picking the right language.

    I thought of myself as a "kinda new" programmer after I finished a semester at college in Java. What did I do? I went to C++ and started learning there and I haven't looked back. I enjoy C++ more than any other languages I've taken (C, C++, Java, VB, Cobol, Pascal). It also doesn't hurt that for what I want to do later in life, it's currently THE language to use to build massive games.

    Finding out what he likes, wants to do, and has already accomplished is imperative to giving GREAT advice as to which direction he should go in his language education.

    Quote Originally Posted by hostod View Post
    zomring, if you want to buy the C++ dvds they are also a very good choice. I don't personally own them but I've heard good things. I believe they are very tough for the first time programmer though. While the C#/XNA dvds are slow and steady, almost taking you by the hand the entire way. To me that is the better choice, I find learning to program hard enough without having my teacher move through things in a rush.
    I haven't taken C# but I hear C++ is a little more difficult. I have the C++ videos and love them. Also, you should remember that many of us have done the C++ tuts and can help you with them to make it easier to learn. I bolded the "To me" because it makes a point that it was YOUR preference that I *HOPE* you made after researching each language. Research is key when starting out and the best way to research is to ask questions. Maybe after all this Zomring may choose to use Java or VB. Maybe we'll stear him towards those languages. Who knows until more information arrives as to what his actual goals are and where he is with programming already.
    "You have to be 10% smarter than the item you're trying to operate."

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    In an igloo near Reykjavik, Iceland
    Learning to program is not about learning a language it's about familiarizing yourself with the methodology and thought process that goes into programming.

    I'd say go for the C#/XNA shiz as it will teach you the basics for game programming. When you're fluent in C#/XNA it'll be a breeze to jump into another language (C++ f.e.).

    Starting off with C++ is _VERY_ daunting for a first time programming nerd and there's a good chance that you'll be put off programming for a while.

    On the other hand C++ is an industry standard and an excellent knowledge base so if you are already familiar with C# or Java and have fiddled with gameprogramming before then by all means go for the C++ VTMs.

    Also if you don't know your maths then I'd suggest that you should start brushing up on your algebra and calculus since a game programmer without a strong math background is an unemployed game programmer.


  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Springfield, MO
    You know Rambo, I think you like arguing as much as I do. I wrote out some fair point of views, and so did you. I honestly don't think ether of us are in a great position to be giving extremely solid advise. Have you ever read about the "Blub Paradox"? Very good stuff, I can't remember the guys name that wrote the paper but I do remember he created the Yahoo Stores website. Anyways, he went into talking about high and low level programming languages. Saying how the programmer using a higher level language (say C#) would look down on programmers of lower level language (say Lisp or maybe C++). Believing they "didn't need all those fancy bells and features". While the low level programmer couldn't see not having them.

    I think your saying he needs to decide for himself what's best, and I agree. I'm just saying that the C#/XNA videos can be an excellent place to start.
    Last edited by hostod; 12-26-2007 at 03:17 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    I would say- read what you can on either language, pick one or the other, then STICK WITH IT! That's the most important part! I've bounced back and forth between the two for some time (and VB) and I realize now that I could have accomplished 10x more if I had stuck with one or the other and just ran with it... The VTMs should help you either way. Plus there are a ton of resources for whatever you decide to do. JUST DO IT.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Shawnee, Kansas


    sorrry if there were those here who didnt appreciate my comments, they were given as I was headed out the door to go to work. Even old people work for a living and I wanted to answer the post with a short, to the point opinion. If you want a long version of my opinion please ask Jason Busby, if he has any time to answer. He is THE authority!!!
    Houdini Student

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    thank you all this helps alot im disabled and stuck in a bed 24/7 so its something i can do all day,
    i was wanting to make mods for games like Half-life 2 and unreal 3 and some of my own little games so im guessing i should get the xna videos first to get the core of game programing then go for c++ for more adv stuff? o also dos xna videos show how to use networking layers for multiplayer games?
    Last edited by zomring; 12-27-2007 at 06:34 AM. Reason: added/spellcheck

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Varberg, westcoast of Sweden
    XNA is far from core of game programing.
    The game loop and timing is already there.
    XNA is more of a gameengine that you put content in and does so little coding.
    But you can make it more geeky and go for MDX to get the right feeling for what is to come.
    To bad MS is making MDX deprecated.
    I like doing stuff with MDX it is more hardcore than XNA.
    But nothing is like coding LibSDL, OpenGL with C++.

    Hardcore FTW.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    lol ok im getting all 3 vids Xmas money for the win and i want to get C++/OpenGL FULL BUNDLE before it gos back up to 200$ from 99

    but ill start with xna cuz alot of u say its easier to start out with i thank you agin all of you, you have been more help than all the sites on google.
    Last edited by zomring; 12-27-2007 at 07:49 AM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    3 vids? which 3? xna vol 1 + 2? whats the 3rd?
    Delphi !ROCKS!
    Got a question? Read this first!!!
    "You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas"

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    What about C# and SlimDX?
    I didn't mean to do it.

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