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  1. #11
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    Yeah there was some race in the olympics where some guy won the 100m just simply coz he was the only one in it, and it took him like 5 minutes or something..

    But at the same time I feel sorry for VK who was really using the challenges to challenge himself, and there wont be any now.
    Delphi !ROCKS!
    Got a question? Read this first!!!
    "You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas"

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LizRiley View Post
    ... there wont be any now.
    I have to wonder if removing the time criterion from the challenges wouldn't help. Yes, this makes it a totally different ball game admittedly but it, IMHO, would be the the newbies benefit. I'd like to see them open a new forum [Delphi Code Projects] where you [or any other mod for that reason] could post code challenges/projects that would be there for all [not just those that happened to be around at the time] newcomers to have a go at.

    The weekly challenges on threading for example, I'd still like to have a go at them but I'd be the only one interested in the final result. Net benefit to me [other than the knowledge I would gain] ... sausage.

    There doesn't have to be a winner [it actually puts me off - but others may like the idea] either a mentor[s] or even peer [a relative term] review of code submitted at any time, would be a much better idea to my mind.

    You own the ball ... totally up to you

  3. #13
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    < A long post is in progress here, Ive edited it a billion times >
    Last edited by LizKimber; 11-21-2007 at 12:03 PM. Reason: stuff
    Delphi !ROCKS!
    Got a question? Read this first!!!
    "You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas"

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LizRiley View Post
    < ... Ive edited it a billion times >
    That sounds foreboding

  5. #15
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    no.. Im just trying to make sure I got the words right (being dyslexic I could be writing any old tripe for all my brain knows half the time)
    Delphi !ROCKS!
    Got a question? Read this first!!!
    "You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas"

  6. #16
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    The following is long but I do urge you to read it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TDelphiHobbyist View Post
    I have to wonder if removing the time criterion from the challenges wouldn't help.
    Well, I agree, I have to wonder too, the problem is, people arent prepared to say.

    Blue and I have asked people what they thought, what they wanted and what they wanted to learn.. Few felt the urge to reply, those who did have been offered the opportunities they wanted, and didnt take them..

    I started weekly as well as monthly challenges as the weekly ones were generally short, and the monthly ones longer, people could do them depending on time.. its also been stressed enough that you can still do them and post to the threads after the event, but that obviously the point is a challenge to inspire people to be motivated, without having answers available to them so they can just given in and look. I give a time frame because if you dont have one its easy to put things off and off and off and off.. and time has majorly passed you by.

    Because I dont run these forums, I cant post a sticky with a link to each of the challenges with a reminder they are public please post and try them even though its over type things. I cant add any long winded text at the top to explain anything either.

    I had a long term plan.. its been mentioned on the board a few times. However, without a good enough ground understanding the goal will never be achieved, and Im sure Im wasting my time trying to help people to get there.

    The weekly challenges on threading for example, I'd still like to have a go at them but I'd be the only one interested in the final result. Net benefit to me [other than the knowledge I would gain] ... sausage.
    Well if you want to view it that way, sure ,it would be of little help, but the point is to try and show people a next step to look at.. Reasons to learn something, giving them purpose as it is almost impossible to learn something without a reason to do it. Im trying to offer a reason to try something they may not have yet..

    If you view knowledge as a sausage's worth of point.. then, why are we trying to learn in the first place? Surely the biggest gain in all of this is the satisfaction of having done it, have it working, and having learnt and achieved on the way?

    If all people want is life on a plate.. Sure you can go round cribbing everyone elses and claiming it as your own, but, you cheat yourself of satisfaction.

    There doesn't have to be a winner [it actually puts me off - but others may like the idea] either a mentor[s] or even peer [a relative term] review of code submitted at any time, would be a much better idea to my mind.
    Winner in a way is the wrong word, but the best solution is more accurate. I even encouraged people to talk about their thoughts and entries so people could see how they went about it.. Off the top of my head only VK took me up on that suggestion.

    I know most here are here for a hobby, however, if you dont let people see your code you could spiral your way into depression with it when it turns out you have a ton of bad coding habbits you never got corrected and that you cant imagine any other way and as a result start failing to be able to make the things you want because of it.

    You own the ball
    No, I just seem to have hold of it for the moment. Ive tried to continue on the learning process to encourage people forward following the pause in Buzz's VTMs (which I am not the best person to make vtms).

    It feels from where I stand that there are a lot of stubborn people who expect me to put a lot of effort in and then are almost insulted that I want some in return. (anyone thinking Im poking at them.. Im not necessarily but ask yourself why you feel guilty)

    I wanted to help people get to grips with something that could be alot of fun for them and all of us as a whole, but so far there hasnt been much fun in any of this for me.

    I am here because I wanted to help but I do feel its not unreasonble to want to feel Ive gained something too. Buzz has thanked me for my help, however, let me ask you guys this.

    How many of you have thanked the people who posted with answers and suggestions to your questions by giving positive reputation?

    How many of you have asked private questions rather than public ones? when it should have been public? excluding the challenge questions.. After all, other than challenges to avoid giving your tactics away to your fellow challengers, why should any delphi question be private?

    How many posts here of questions have answers already littering a google search with the core words of the question?? or even searching the forum here? So you could have had an answer so much quicker, if you had searched for the right thing.

    I look through many posts here and if Adam, blue or I didnt answer them people would be really miffed, in fact there have been a few times people have voiced the "why havent you answered me yet". While I cant honestly speak for Blue. Both Adam and myself have taught ourselves, and if we could find out, there must be a way you can. There werent even search engines on the internet when I started, so, it really should be possible.
    Delphi !ROCKS!
    Got a question? Read this first!!!
    "You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas"

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LizRiley View Post
    The following is long but I do urge you to read it.
    WHAM!
    <gets up and dusts himself off> Geez Liz, what did I do to cause that?

    At this time, other than to say;
    that the sausage comment needed a and I forgot to add one, and
    be assured, I take learning/knowledge very seriously.
    I'll have to take some time and develop a response to yours.

    <wanders off ... shaking head in bewilderment>

    It's a great post BTW.

  8. #18
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    No no, its not AIMED at you, you are included in the target audience, but then so is everyone.. Its not aimed at any 1 specific person, its aimed in the air like a almighty firework.. I want people to read it.. I hope they do.
    Delphi !ROCKS!
    Got a question? Read this first!!!
    "You gotta help us, Doc. We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas"

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LizRiley View Post
    No no, its not AIMED at you, you are included in the target audience, but then so is everyone.. Its not aimed at any 1 specific person, its aimed in the air like a almighty firework.. I want people to read it.. I hope they do.
    Whewww!

    When I first saw your response I though "Awww, man ... I didn't even know that button was there!".

    I too hope everyone reads it, and takes it to heart.

    It is a great post. <places an apple on the corner of Liz's desk and returns to his seat>

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LizRiley View Post
    I give a time frame because if you dont have one its easy to put things off and off and off and off.. and time has majorly passed you by.
    Personally I like a deadline for the reason you give Liz. I can cout on several fingers the number of projects I've started but lost interstedin and think "I'll get back to it someday." And thier still waiting for me to get back to them. That's a bad habit I'm breaking by making me set deadlines for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by LizRiley View Post
    I know most here are here for a hobby, however, if you dont let people see your code you could spiral your way into depression with it when it turns out you have a ton of bad coding habbits you never got corrected and that you cant imagine any other way and as a result start failing to be able to make the things you want because of it.
    That would describe me before I came here. Here's a good example. Before the Muck challenge I had a semi-coherent idea of what and how you used classes. Unfortuantely because I was missing a key couple of bits. This leads to many memory leaks.

    Also when Liz posted her demo record of for the Muck class I had a fore-head slapping moment because I had dismissed records as unusable.

    when I found the 3DBuzz forums I was greatful. I wanted to learn Delphi but didn't have a clue about it. Also C++ got in my way. But once I got the feel for it I wanted mroe. Now at first I was dis-inclined to Google until the challenges started.

    Do I have lots to learn still? Absoluately. But [B]because[?B] of the effot I needed to put in I'm getting back tothe point that drew me into programming in the first place, which was "wow I wnat to know how they did that." Well that and the only way to get games onto your Vic-20 was to enter them in if you didn't have a tape-drive

    VK
    - who is going to go count the thank yous he owes now.

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