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  1. #21
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    Dec 2003
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    Let me address a couple of things with this post you made.

    Quote Originally Posted by airjordan12345
    You seriously are so microsoft biased its annoying at times...
    Yes, I can be sorry, but when I see a good product and company I like to support them especially when I spend hours of time researching that company and know a lot about them.

    Do you have proof that XNA will be a complete success and become the main platform for games to be developed on? NOOOOOOOOOOO

    Can I tell you that its gonna fluke and no one is gonna use it....NOOOOOOOOO

    There is no way to predict it. It all depends on how the community reacts (And so far there is ton of support which is great) And it also depends on how development companies react and decide to use it.
    No there is no way to predict any of that however people tend to keep in their heads that because it is microsoft it won't be up to par with everything else. Because C# is managed it can't and won't be as good as unmanaged. etc etc etc. After talking to countless people from industry proffesionals that are MS MVP's to talking to a many Microsoft developers about many of their products I have a pretty good handle on how good these products are so when I see evidence that something is good I like to present it. I also like to tell people why I am showing this evidence.

    Will it be ported to UE3? Who knows, will UE 3.5 or 4 be done in XNA Build? Who knows. It really is early in the game to tell what role in the game dev industry XNA will play.
    Agreed there is no way to know any of that. My post was simply to provide more evidence that there is a good possibility of XNA being ABLE to make the next UE3 or something equally as good.

    Its just extremely annoying you are 100% blinded by Microsoft, you can never be wrong and it gets annoying. On every thread I make a comment you always refute my post, or anyone's who doesnt agree with you and its quite annoying. People have opinions and you or me are not the ultimate truth.
    Agreed, I annoy myself about this point constantly beleive it or not. I am the type of person that researches the death out of something and it takes a lot to prove otherwise to me.


    Like I said i dont know whats gonna happen with XNA, I for one am gonna employ and enjoy it. I already got XNA Express Beta 2 installed and I am perhaps gonna get an Xbox360 this Xmas, mainly motivated by Gears of War...And mostly by XNA, its an incredible proposition to be able to code games for a console, and for this price which is fantastic. Plus I never doubted the power of XNA...Its the same thing as making a game just with a different approach and a different framework. I dont think microsoft meant XNA Express to be something that allows people to code simple 2D/arcade games on it. Im pretty sure with time and throught 2007, we will see many many games done in 3D. Specially with the Torque Engine being ported to XNA and C#.

    I think that for XNA to really become massively accepted it should broaden the languages you can use it with. C# is excellent but others might prefer Visual Basic, C++, C or even Java.

    Knowing microsoft however, they wont do this but thats fine I guess.
    You are right it won't move beyond any .net languages since that is the MS champion right now.

    So truly, i dont think it sucks or is gonna suck, but I also dont know how it will do nor do I care, developers will continue to develop how they do, and those who see XNA fit for their pipeline will implement it...Those who cant due to budget, time or whatever then they wont. Im sure many great games will come out with XNA Build and also XNA Express from the community.

    So for now its back to reading and coding and perhaps having a lot of fun with XNA in the near future

    EDIT: The Whole debate about C++ being faster or C# being faster is getting Old...C# has advantages over C++ and C++ has advantages over C#. I believe C++ will continue to be a mainstream language for many years but C# could become the most dominant one in a while, who knows.
    Yes C++ will be dominant for at least the next 2 to 3 years, but IMHO it takes people that are looking at programming games now to not only look at what is mainstream, but look for what could be mainstream and learn both. I am not knocking C++ at all I am just providing evidence against the common saying of managed won't be as good as unmanaged. I see it a lot in out right statments or snide remarks so I present evidence when and where I can find it.

    Plus I dont understand why people Worry about having to determine which is faster or not. No games that are the quality of Gears of War, Unreal 2007 or Half Life 2 will come out of XNA...WAIT BEFOR EI GET FLAMED....By hobbiest and small groups...Its impossible for me to code an engine and make a game with such rich art direction, creativity and assets. Now if say some company makes use of the XNA Express framework or better yet XNA Build...Then it is possible to have Triple A titles made on it.
    You are right hobbyists won't make the next Unreal 2007, would be cool if they could, Again I was just trying to show the possibilities.

    So for all I know we, the simple home users of XNA and hobbysts shouldnt worry about speed because our games will most likely never reach a point that we need to squeeze every ounce of processing power. Plus a lot of people can program, but not all are good at determining slow downs or overhead, and not all are good programmers (meaning that they make efficient, clean and fast code).


    ON A SIDE NOT. I didnt mean to bash or flame at %20...As a matter of Fact I have a question for you because I know you are so familiar with XNA you perhaps know.
    No worries you were letting out frustrations.

    Since XNA is letting us code a game for the Xbox360...Can I, using the XNA Framework...Use the 3 processor cores separately for different tasks on different threads? Kind alike Kojima san is doing for Metal Gear Solid 4 on the PS3...Physics on one core, Graphics on the GPU, AI on another Core, The rest on the 3rd core for example.

    If You can do that then im running to get an Xbox360 tomorrow! LOL Because this much power has never been given to us regular citizens.

    Ohh and I know i might have been a bit doubtful about XNA...Truth is i was neither right nor wrong. We still dont know how it will be used in the future. But truly why should we or I care. As long as its available to us, thats all we need to be concerned and happy about

    Thanks in advance for whoever answers my question.
    I know you can do multi threaded games I am not sure about the multi core though. You can always make a request. Later when one of the XNA devs gets online i'll ask him about it.
    JapanGaku - Blog about Japan, J-Drama, and the Japanese Language
    BuddyLindsey.com - My Development Blog

  2. #22
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    Jul 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by rev'en
    And how do you show your talent in low-level algorithms and pure engine design?
    Well you can not get a great demo working without some form of algorithms in there. At the end of the day it does not really matter how your code works, as long as it does in fact work and you make it work on schedule. Companies are more interested in the fact you can finish things quickly than being able to write the Mona Lisa of C++ syntax. Just create an awesome demo in your chosen field and you'll be fine

  3. #23
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    Sep 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGoldfish
    Well you can not get a great demo working without some form of algorithms in there. At the end of the day it does not really matter how your code works, as long as it does in fact work and you make it work on schedule. Companies are more interested in the fact you can finish things quickly than being able to write the Mona Lisa of C++ syntax. Just create an awesome demo in your chosen field and you'll be fine
    So in essence companies, in general, wont be interrested in tweaking every bit of performance out of the computer as long as the game is shippable with the newest tech? A sad trend if it is true.

    Keep in mind that after tons of optimisation you could, in theory make the game look better at the same frame rate
    I didn't mean to do it.

  4. #24
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    May 2005
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    Quito, Ecuador (A small country in South America)
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    Thanks %20

    Actually if you go to the XNA domunentation...There should be something about framework extensions of .NET for XNA.

    It tells you there that each processor has 2 hardware threads. Having 3 cores it allows for up to 6 threads to be handled by each processor, Or something like that i think it was 2 per core i dont remember. But you can use the .NET "System.Thread" class to implement different threads into your app...As a matter of fact I do believe the 360 supports multithreading with XNA Express I just havent explored it or read in depth (It was 4AM when i replied to the thread and found that in the documentation)

    Its pretty cool im really gonna get into XNA mainly because it provides people with knowledge about console programming and that is pretty nice.

    As a matter of fact my dad insists on me getting an Xbox360 as it will be benefitial to my career and learning.


    So yeah cool stuff with XNA...cool stuff indeed

  5. #25
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    Dec 2003
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    ok was talking a bit with the XNA dev and he hasn't actually messed with it, but yeah using System.Threading you can do multithreaded apps so what ever you can do with that is possible with XNA. That is about all I got out of him then he signed off.
    JapanGaku - Blog about Japan, J-Drama, and the Japanese Language
    BuddyLindsey.com - My Development Blog

  6. #26
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    Jul 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by rev'en
    So in essence companies, in general, wont be interrested in tweaking every bit of performance out of the computer as long as the game is shippable with the newest tech? A sad trend if it is true.

    Keep in mind that after tons of optimisation you could, in theory make the game look better at the same frame rate
    The trick to optimisation is not to optimise every single bit of code when you write it. Once written you profile the application and then only optimise the bottlenecks. It's like coding things in the most obvious way first and then optimise if necessary. Otherwise you could be wasting time optimising something that really doesn't need to be optimised.

    Publishers will set milestones for a development team which have to be met. It doesn't matter if it isn't the fastest piece of code; it just has to have all the features it's suppose to for the milestone.

    You're right though, it is a sad fact. But how many PC games have we all bought that suck every piece of performance from your computer leaving it practically dead after you close the game i.e. Battlefield 2.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGoldfish
    The trick to optimisation is not to optimise every single bit of code when you write it. Once written you profile the application and then only optimise the bottlenecks. It's like coding things in the most obvious way first and then optimise if necessary. Otherwise you could be wasting time optimising something that really doesn't need to be optimised.
    I know that. I just think that it potentially could lead to better performance if every bit of code is optimised - even though there are no bottlenecks, you still might be able to tweak all of it a tiny bit.
    I didn't mean to do it.

  8. #28
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    Sep 2006
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    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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    11
    Thought I would take a side note to the actual discussion going on in this thread and say, that I think the german that produced the xna racer game is the same german (Benjamin Nitschke) that produced the Rocket Commander game that is showcased on Microsofts Coding4Fun website. And if that is the case he is not exactly a hobbiest user. Seem to remember something about him sitting on some panels with Microsoft reps.

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