[kashak]

Hi, people

To those of you who help me with tips and tricks on my latest post (Trouble: BIOS freezes at POST")where I had to deal with "half-death" to my old-school veteran computer "Rocket" which is crippled PIII with working pathology this another thread could rise suspicions and questions of what the hell is happening on my side if monitor

I'll allow myself this time to be short. Above mentioned computer is fixed and is happily doing it's work I asked it kindly to do at the moment of writing

Now it's yet another, my second old computer who yesterday went into "Blue Screen Madness" and uprise against me. Everything's fine, no human casualties as a result of this revolt.
It is Pentium IV - 2.4Ghz, 2GB RAM, 512MB GeForce 7600GT, 32-bit Windows XP Pro SP2 and 3ds max 2008.
This time let's leave Blue Screen out of picture, situation is under control. And what's more - a total clean up and total formatting of both drives(C:\40GB and D:\500GB) and PC cleanup was anyway in my plans. All back up is done and nothing to worry.


Here we come to main point - 3GB on 32-bit windows XP with aim at 3ds max. I did some research on Google and found almost all I need to get although messy yet still quite clear picture.

I'm writing in order to hear "experience stories" and if there are those who really managed to feel the difference and to whom this 3GB switch really did served well. Through my research I got more technical info on how to do this and what it is and less of people feedback on usefulness of this risky maneuver.

Can anyone share some positive experience? Did it helped to avoid MR render error "Out of Memory" at least to some degree? Workflow improved etc? My RAM is Kingston 1GB chips and I have 3rd in reserve - identical model. My motherboard supports three RAM slots. Is it worth for me to mess around? I read some info that 3GB switch can have some incompabilities with some drivers, like graphics card for example.

64-bit system for now is not an option to me
I will be glad to hear from you

[DigitalDemigod]

I've got 3gb in each of my xp pro machines and it's great. I never have out of memory errors. More ram is always a good thing, but with 32 bit xp, no it doesn't really make sense to buy 4gb as windows would only address up to approx 3.5gb anyway.

[Frankie V]

Max’s memory management is a bit of a mystery at best but there are a few assumptions that can be made based on how Windows manages memory. When main memory starts to run low Windows does page memory off to the hard drive and on a few occasions I’ve noticed that indeed it does increase the size of the swap file during rendering.

Adding more physical memory is always a good choice and considering that it is not as expensive to do so could be worth the cost for a bit of a boost but workflow wise you can get a lot more bag out of good scene management habits than you would by adding more memory.

It’s just human nature to abuse the limits of the resources available. If memory had an 11 on the dial most would even try to force it past that setting. In a lot of cases just turning off a lot of the things you don’t need can improve editing performance even greater than a cutting edge system using the same settings.

Turn off your texture maps, apply an optimization modifier, use proxies or X referencing and a lot of times you can create rather extensive scenes with out the workload overhead.

Another thing to take into consideration is most systems and Windows, more so if you are using core or hyperlinked processors, likes memory in pairs. The idea is 2,4,8,16,32 gig memory pairs and there is still on going argument as to the benefit of uneven pairing.

As for MR running out of memory it’s not always the case of the computer running out of memory but rather the video card not having enough to support the textures it needs to process as part of the render. More so if hardware rendering is involved.

I’ve had this occur on me a few times and when it does occur I’ve found that switching from Direct 3D to openGL usually clears the problem and in some cases the type of material used can cause a OOM error as well. The one thing I’ve learned about Max over the years is what seems to be the obvious problem is not always the case and even a dated computer running 2.5 can produce some excellent results as long as you don’t solely depended on Max to do “everything”.

[kashak]

I've got 3gb in each of my xp pro machines and it's great

That encourages

t doesn't really make sense to buy 4gb

even if I wanted, I couldn't - I have only three RAM slots on my mobo

Reply to Frankie V bit latter, good deal of info to consider

[DigitalDemigod]

Originally Posted by kashak

That encourages

even if I wanted, I couldn't - I have only three RAM slots on my mobo

Reply to Frankie V bit latter, good deal of info to consider

I was distracted at work and didn't get to really mention more details:

I run Max 8 on one system and Max 2010 on another. Both are xp pro 32 bit with 3gb of ram.

On the max 8 system when I used to have 2gb ram, sometimes I did get out of memory errors. I have not see any since adding that extra 1gb. Course this could depend on the scene and other details, but that's all I know.

[kashak]

when I used to have 2gb ram, sometimes I did get out of memory errors. I have not see any since adding that extra 1gb. Course this could depend on the scene and other details, but that's all I know

Ou, thats sounds good, Digital Demigod.
So far I hadn't any scene more complex than 300000 polys all together but still it's very complex since a lot of animation with rigged character and lighting setup is involved in context of one collaborative 3D short project I'm working on besides my own one so called "Alien Rocker" where I recently got into some heavy troubles. Which is where we come to Frankie's reply.

workflow wise you can get a lot more bag out of good scene management habits than you would by adding more memory

So, let's touch scene management.
Now with quite a horrible experience I had to went through thanks to my laziness and ignorance on this side of work, I can and just have to only agree!
Frankie, could you please give some practical tips, to name at least few scene management tips I should take into account?
Since you touched this topic, I think for a full picture I will share with you my current experience and what I went through. I've been working on my musical 3D short "Alien Rocker" now for a loooong time and in the very end, when I started to work on last scene which is heaviest one, this project's folder system and management already reached is maximum entropy - it's total chaos! I feel very pissed by mistakes of my own.
Example on one scene. This is final part of my project, sort of an introduction intro. Crowd of creatures running toward entrance in Space Hall to get on time on concert of Alien Rockers and Plankman. Aim of that - improve my skills with Character Studio, prepare audience, just create a shot I really like, and finaly - "jump over my head", create complex scene I never did before.
(Overall screenshot)
[img=http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4962/spacehall2.th.jpg]
(Wireframe of Space Hall)
[img=http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3893/intro43hallcenterwithcr.th.jpg]
(An Out Of Memory Error I encounter very often)
[img=http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1823/intro46anothercrash23se.th.jpg]


There's no scene management. The only thing is layers - I keep each biped on separate layer and separate scene (that's how I concluded that there's more than 40 of them, it's crazy). My first sad realization was that with my current computers I won't even be able to render this scene - MR hangs immidiately, not enough memory. I went realtime. Also, I can't keep all creatures merged in scene with all textures - scene become very unstable and what's more, between biped creature scenes one is corrupted, don't know which. There's in other words a lot of scene merging going on. I lost track where is what, in which folder is creatures only at that side and in which scene is only at bar, at corridor and so on. Biped files are on C disk, in max scene assets. Textures for Space Hall is on D drive, Big Screen video is somewhere else :d Nightmare of scene managing and total chaos. Scenes themselves are like timebomb - each time I touch some biped I am afraid of "Run Out Of Memory". There are bugs in Character Studio
I do realize that perhaps for 2GB and my old machine this is to much. But somehow I managed to get picture, with real-time graphics and clunky shadows since I run it through my notebook (HP, 2GB, centino duo 1,73Ghz, 256 GeForce). What mess because of mess was to transfer all this intro scene files from notebook to my Pentium IV in order for better real-time animation output give a try to it's 512MB videocard (and it does shows better itself). Missing files, missing textures, ...aaahhhhhh. Whatever, I'm not giving hope anyway
All I said this for is to share my total agreement for need to practice good scene management habit, as Frankie said.

[kashak]

Turn off your texture maps, apply an optimization modifier, use proxies or X referencing and a lot of times you can create rather extensive scenes with out the workload overhead

I think that could be a partial answer to my previously described experience with my scene
I haven't touched proxies or X ref so far

The idea is 2,4,8,16,32 gig memory pairs and there is still on going argument as to the benefit of uneven pairing

That's what discourages me. And since I have only three RAM slots, 3GB is the only possible way

As for MR running out of memory it’s not always the case of the computer running out of memory but rather the video card not having enough to support the textures it needs to process as part of the render. More so if hardware rendering is involved

I never thought so or even had suspicions. I thought it pretty straightforward - videocard does job for realtime and viewports only. Once render goes on processor takes it all

The one thing I’ve learned about Max over the years is what seems to be the obvious problem is not always the case and even a dated computer running 2.5 can produce some excellent results as long as you don’t solely depended on Max to do “everything”.

That really encourages me

[kashak]

I want to add this since I described my experienced horrors with that crowded intro scene and out of memory issue.

I'm not looking for this 3rd GB of RAM as solution to my mess I created in above example . Although that would be great if that indeed helped to max run this horribly messed up scene more stable, even for only a little bit. It's more for another projects.
One more question arouse. If I do add this 3rd GB and add 3GB switch properly as instructed on many sites with that line in notepad - what's with max rendering memory manager under Rendering tab which usually by default is 650MB. Do I then type there something like 2500MB and max will start using it or it's not that simple?

[androoow]

i always was lead to believe that running memory in pairs as its Dual channel memory was the way to go... so with 2 slots = 2x2GB dual channel mem = 4GB yeah minus what ever memory is on your graphic card . With ram so cheap these days , its not super expensive to get a matched set of 2x2GB ...unless anyone here says its better to run 3x1GB?????? i'm deff no expert , just follow advice from forums.

[wwSwimming]

Originally Posted by kashak

And since I have only three RAM slots, 3GB is the only possible way

Originally Posted by kashak

The idea is 2,4,8,16,32 gig memory pairs and there is still on going argument as to the benefit of uneven pairing

it depends a lot on the motherboard and the memory.

since this motherboard has 3 slots, it does not need DDR400. DDR400 correlates to matched pairs, and those motherboards have 2 or 4 slots - never 3.

if you put 3 identical 1 GB DDR RAM modules in each of the 3 slots, it might work.

if it does work, the extra memory will help your 3D work.

hate to give you such a non-decisive answer, but that's what i've observed with the DDR & DDR400 series of motherboards.

i have an Abit IC-7 Max 3 with a P4 @ 3.0 GHz (Pro-E installed). i also had an Asus P4C800 with a P4 @ 3.0 GHz, with 4 x 512 Mushkin 2-2-2-5 (low-latency RAM, wonderful stuff).

i tried giving the Abit all 4 RAM modules. it would not boot. it's OK with 2 x 512. not a PERFECT example, just trying to point out that ... motherboards are picky ?

by the way ... is it an MSI 845G ? i used to have one of those. it had 3 memory slots, too.

one suggestion for the RAM -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231047
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400
$65; if you buy 2 pair you'll just have one extra.

faster than you need, but PROBABLY compatible. my experience is that DDR400 will work in a computer that only needs DDR333.