trying to grasp the meaning and workflow for normal maps

[jex24]

I'm kind of new to 3ds max, and this is what i've understand so far
regarding normal mapping:

- makes your low-poly model look detailed.


So does this mean that the turbo-smooth, meshsmooth modifiers are
only used to preview your low-poly character to high-poly.
Coz i've always thought that after you make an organic model,
you put turbo-smooth modifier on it to make it high-poly.
i'm pretty confused right now.
my assumed workflow was.
1. Make low-poly character in 3ds max
2. put turbo-smooth/meshsmooth modifier and save as.
3. import your smooth character to zbrush/mudbox to make details.
4. Bring your high-poly char from zbrush back to 3ds max and bake normal maps.
(OMG... my english is getting worst. I can't explain it very well.)

[mikejkelley]

Hey Jex, I just started with normalMapping too, so I'm by no means an expert, but being a beginner gives me a perspective that might be useful for you.

First of all, I'm assuming by "character" you mean game character, otherwise unless your char is real-time, you prolly don't need normal mapping.

normal maps are maps that contain lighting information for each pixel of a hi-poly. This info is projected onto the lo-poly so each pixel knows how to look under a variety of different lighting circumstances and gives the illusion of surface detail where there is an otherwise flat surface. Kind of like a hologram. It makes your low-poly model look detailed.

Anyways, here's what your workflow should (maybe) look like, and probs I've encountered/solved or tips others at Buzz have passed on to me...

1. Make low-poly character in 3ds max (making sure to use even-sized quads) w/ UV maps
2. forget turbo-smooth/meshsmooth modifier
3. import your low-poy character to zbrush/mudbox to up-res and make details.
4. Create normal map in Zbrush
4.5? Export slightly modified lo-poly back into max
5. In Max load normal map in map>bump>normalBump>bitmap>nameofmap.dds

Step 4 is giving me probs right now, I *think* you must apply/reapply/load/Idon'tKnow UV coords at the first subdivision lvl (loPoly) and then create the normal map at the second to last subdivision lvl (up-res version).

I'll be surpirsed if, er, I mean, I hope this helps!

[jex24]

thanx mike,
this is the kind of low poly char i'm trying to achieve.
http://http://tomtallian.com/pages/tf2.html
(i really love this style!)

his wireframe is very simple, and this shows that he
put his details through his textures and maybe normal mapping.

3. import your low-poy character to zbrush/mudbox to up-res and make details.

- what does up-res do? sorry but i'm really still trying to learn the tech terms.

[mikejkelley]

up-res is just standard computer jargon for upping the resolution (usually thru artificial/procedural means). In max you turboSmooth and in zBrush you subDivide to achieve higher resolutions. I personally up-res in zBrush.

his wireframe is very simple, and this shows that he
put his details through his textures and maybe normal mapping.

Hard to say what he's done there, I'd have to read up on fortresses... it may be there's some cel-shading or similar going on. It would be important to determine this first as creating a cel-shaded char limits you to half the tris of a regualr char.

Also you can use GPUMeshMapper (ATI's free dev app) to create normal maps once you've both UVed and exported a hi and lo poly version. It's been by far the easiest way for me. You can find it on the Ati site.

[16bit]

My process for normal mapping is to create a hires mesh, then a lowres one, that usually isnt over 4-5k, then render the normal map with projection in the render to texture feature, theres a cool tutorial you can do online, featuring dice. Let me find it.

-edit-
http://www.game-artist.net/forums/sp...l-mapping.html

[jex24]

thanx guys... i really appreciate all your help.

i've also searched the zbrush-3dsmax workflow and i've found a .pdf version of it, so i'll be making it as my guide. There are a lot of tech terms i'm not familiar of. So i will take this slowly and try to absorb as much information as i can. and thanx for the link.

And by the way, how did u make normal maps back in the days when there were no programs like zbrush? did u guys make the hi-poly in 3ds max?

[mikejkelley]

jex24, it occurred to me awhile later that in those examples the artist isn't actually adding much if any detail in the polished versions (and what detail if any is fairly geometric). If you're going after that look specifically, you could, prolly should, bypass zBrush altogether. You can even get away without normalMapping. Here's some of my toon work, no zBrush or normalMapping...

http://www.moddb.com/groups/3d-artis...esign#imagebox

If you're a beginner I'd suggest making your low-poly first and up-resing with turbosmooth (although the other way around works too). I'd export both versions as an .obj into GPUMeshMapper and let it do the grunt work. I've yet to be able to make max's normalMapping work for me.

And by the way, how did u make normal maps back in the days when there were no programs like zbrush? did u guys make the hi-poly in 3ds max?

I actually started normalMapping all of two weeks ago, but back in the olden days (4yrs ago) they'd of prolly made the hiPoly (which is today's loPoly) in max although zBrush came out around the time of the advent of normalMapping. The maps themselves were created by manually setting up red, green, and blue lights //and creating a render from an angle that mimicked the UV coords (I think).

If you are intent on learning zBrush workflow (again, for a toon project I would recommend against its' use) chech out...

http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/registration.php

There's a whole section on workflow, but in the dreaded quicktime format.

BTW
gpuMeshMapper
http://ati.amd.com/developer/gpumeshmapper.html

[jex24]

really big thanx, one more thing...

about being a character artist, are they flexible both in games and in making cg movies? I was wondering about this one since there are no game developing companies in my country, there are few of them that i know of but mostly flash games and mobile games for cellphones.

[mikejkelley]

Making chars for movies and games are pretty distinct disciplines. For movies I think they model primarily using NURBS. I wouldn't think there's much cross-over.

If you're willing to relocate (what country are you in?) sometimes ppl get hired with a strong enough portfolio and mod experience. Awards and contest wins help too.

[jex24]

I'm from the philippines hehe .

The issue of piracy here in our country are neglected so i think that's part
of the reason why companies are discouraged to venture into game developing.